Episode 23--Parenting and Working with Children with ADHD with Mental Health Advocate Tandra Rutledge

In today's episode, Brian forgets to show up to our interview, so Billy has to retreat to his home recording fort for our second conversation with mental health advocate Tandra Rutledge from the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.  Tandra shares how she helps her son unlock his ADHD superpowers!  There's even a surprise guest at the end of this episode! 

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This episode uses the following resources:
--American Foundation for Suicide Prevention
--Mental Health Technology Transfer Center Network

Transcript

Thank you for taking the time to listen to The Mindful Midlife Crisis podcast. We hope you enjoy this week’s episode. If this episode resonates with you, please share it with your family and friends. We will do our best to put out new content every Wednesday to get you over the midweek hump. If you want episodes to be downloaded automatically to your phone each week, all you need to do is hit the checkmark, Subscribe, Like, or Follow button, depending on what podcast format you’re using. While you’re at it, feel free to leave our show a quick five-star review with a few kind words so more people like you can easily find our show. If you’re really enjoying the show and you want to help us out, feel free to make a donation to www.buymeacoffee.com/MMCpodcast. You can also access the link in our show notes. We use the money from these donations to pay whatever expenses we incur from producing the show, but, ultimately, we record this show for you so if you keep listening, we’ll keep recording and releasing new episodes each week regardless. If you’d like to contact us or if you have suggestions about what you’d like us to discuss on future episodes, feel free to email us at mindfulmidlifecrisis@gmail.com or follow us on Instagram at @Mindful_Midlife_Crisis. Be sure to check out the show notes for links to the articles and resources we referenced throughout the show. Thanks again for listening. May you feel happy, healthy, and loved. Enjoy the show.

Welcome to The Mindful Midlife Crisis, a podcast for people navigating the complexities and possibilities of life second half. Join your hosts, Billy and Brian, a couple of average dudes who will serve as your armchair life coaches as we share our life experiences, both the good and the bad, in an effort to help us all better understand how we can enjoy and make the most of the life we have left to live in a more meaningful way. Take a deep breath, embrace the present, and journey with us through The Mindful Midlife Crisis.

Billy: Welcome to The Mindful Midlife Crisis. I’m your host, Billy, and I’m not joined by my good friend Brian on the Bass because he thought that today is Monday but it is actually Tuesday and we are supposed to be recording once again with a mental health advocate and boss bae, Tandra Rutledge, but he is out on the schoolie somewhere in the middle of Wisconsin and probably eating cheese and smelling like Miller Lite somewhere. So, Brian, we hope you’re having a great time with your family. I know that he is going to be bummed out that he doesn’t get to be a part of this second conversation that we are having with American Foundation of Suicide Prevention director and mental health advocate Tandra Rutledge. Tandra, thank you for coming back. We’re going to change subjects this time and we’re going to talk about parenting tips for raising a child with ADHD. How to Unleash Your Child’s Superpowers, that’s one of the presentations that you give. You also give a presentation called What Teachers Should Know About ADHD: Supporting Diverse Students and Families, and both of those can be found on the Great Lakes Mental Health Technology Transfer Center website which is mhttcnetwork.org. Tandra, welcome back. Thank you for coming back. Thank you for allowing us to shift our schedule around a little bit and do this interview one on one. I’m recording from my home studio recording tent, you said it looks like I’m just lying down here telling ghost stories. I’m glad that you can make it back. Thank you so much. 

Tandra: Thank you, Billy, and I know your listeners can’t see this but just imagine a grown man laying on his bed with a microphone and that’s the image that we have here. It’s quite interesting that he’s in a fort, an adult fort, but I’m glad to be here with you today, Billy, and, Brian, you are definitely missed. Thank you for having me. 

Billy: Absolutely. So, when we got done talking to you last week, Brian immediately said, “Wow, I am taking that ‘You good?’ strategy and talking to my boys like that moving forward just so that they can open up about how they are feeling.” He said he absolutely loved that idea of asking them what does your brain need so he was over the moon when we finished that conversation because you shared so many wonderful ways for parents to normalize and prioritize conversations around mental health with their teens so thank you so very much for sharing your expertise there. 

Tandra: No, it’s important for us to normalize these conversations and I know last week, we talked about suicide prevention, and this week, we are talking about attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, or ADHD, as it’s more commonly referred to. And so we have to have these conversations so I’m more than happy to share any tidbits that have helped me as a parent. In full disclosure, I am a parent of a child with ADHD. I’m also a mental health professional and an advocate and so the only way I know how to talk about this and to help other people is to share my own experiences and not to hold my experiences as expert advice but, honestly, to share my experiences to give people hope that they too can get through these difficult times and gain better understanding of how to help and support their children, and as you said, unleash their superpowers. 

Billy: Yeah. So, we want to get to that conversation here about raising the children with ADHD. Really quickly, you shared your 10 roles last week. We won’t make you do that again but —

Tandra: Good, because I don’t remember them. Thank you. 

Billy: Yeah, yeah, I just remember boss bae because I’m always going to look at you as the mental health — I’m never going to call you a mental health advocate again, I’m going to call you the mental health boss bae forever and ever, whenever I see or talk about you.

Tandra: Totally fine. 

Billy: I’m just wondering, what are some advice you would offer to your younger self, not even just around being a parent with a child with ADHD, just in general, what are some advice that you would offer to your younger self?

Tandra: I would tell my younger self, the younger girl in me, to trust her gut. I think growing up, I second guessed myself a lot and I would add to that, not only trust my gut but also one of the things that I’ve learned as an adult is that everybody doesn’t get the vision that you’re given. And we talked last week, as a Christian, I believe in God and so I believe that God has given me a specific vision and a purpose for my life and it’s for me. It’s not for Billy. So if I tell Billy, “Hey, Billy, I wanna do this and this,” and Billy says, “Ah, phooey, phooey, Tandra.” Well, it’s not for Billy, it’s for me. And so to trust my gut and to trust, honestly, the vision and the purpose that I have for my life and that it’s for me and my path is for me and it’s not for anyone else. I know that’s a mouthful. See, you get me going, Billy. You get me going.

Billy: Well, no, that one actually really hit hard, that vision piece and the path because that’s what I’m trying to navigate right now. I’ve got a big announcement that’s coming up here when we start Season 3. And I think a lot of probably our listeners have figured it out. If they follow us on Instagram at Mindful_Midlife_Crisis, they probably have figured out what that is, and if you want a sneak peek, you can just follow us on Instagram. But what you talked about, that idea of trusting your gut and knowing that the path that you’re on has been shown to you because of the vision that you have and the way that you see the world and the way that you interpret the world and it’s individualized for us and I just really love that. I think that’s one of the reasons why I love talking to guests is because they share such wonderful nuggets of wisdom like that so thank you. And you’re allowed to get going and keep going any way you want because we have enjoyed speaking with you and it’s once again a pleasure to speak with you again today.

Tandra: Oh, thank you, and as I think about what I just shared about the path and trusting your gut and the vision for your life, it really applies as we’re having this conversation about children, teenagers with ADHD, because ADHD is one of the most common neurological disorders in childhood and yet, in many ways, it’s one of the most misunderstood disorders at the same time. So it’s one of the more common ones but it also is very misunderstood. And so, you find oftentimes children and parents of children with ADHD very frustrated, feeling very defeated because they don’t know how to navigate their disorder and parents don’t know how to parent a child with those unique challenges and how to support them and advocate for them. And, honestly, the children don’t know how to verbalize what it is that they’re dealing with. They don’t know. There are some things that — we all know kind of the hallmark symptoms of ADHD. It’s the inattentiveness, the impulsivity, and the hyperactivity. And it’s those three symptoms that are to a significant enough degree that it impairs that child’s ability to function in school and at home. So, yes, children are active and inattentive. Yes, yes, yes, yes to all those things. Boys, especially, and I have two of them so I know. But with a child who has ADHD, those three or two of those three, at least two of those three characteristics are significant enough that it just makes them hard just being a kid. And I think that because it is, quote unquote, we see it as “behavioral,” kid won’t sit still, kid’s impulsive, kid’s blurting out answers, that we tend to use punitive. If we see it as behavioral, we think that it’s voluntary. And if it’s voluntary, we see it as disobedience. And if it’s disobedience, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, we’re going to correct the disobedience. So we almost have to — not almost, we should change our perspective on how we even see ADHD because it’s not behavioral, it’s neurological, and we start to see it as neurological, then we understand that it is not willful disobedience. It’s not something that a child can just decide not to be inattentive or, this is the one I’m guilty of, try harder, to realize that a child with ADHD is trying as hard as they can. My son said to me when describing his ADHD brain, he said, “It’s like my brain is on 100.” Another way of describing the ADHD brain, and you can’t see it on the outside, imagine if you had a party in your head 24/7 just going on in your head and then you’re in school and the teacher is saying, “Okay, class, settle down. Get your pencils and pens out and let’s start to read,” and that party is still going on in your head. Imagine how much energy it would take you to ignore the party in your brain so that you could muster up enough or whatever you want to call it to try your best to focus so that you don’t stand out in class and get in trouble. That is just the best way that I can describe how some kids with ADHD struggle. And so when we tell them, even as parents, “Well, try harder,” they are trying as hard as they can. Doesn’t mean they can’t learn skills. Doesn’t mean they can’t learn additional skills, but right there where they are right now, they’re trying as hard as they can in many cases. 

Billy: I like how you painted that idea that if we were to take a look inside and understand that this is neurological, that it’s not behavioral, it reminds me to when you talked about if we looked at mental health as a condition like we look at physical health as a condition so I always liked the way that you frame those topics so that we see it and we reframe it in a different way and understand it in a different way. I was wondering, you’ve kind of talked about both boys here, can you tell us what makes your two boys unique from one another?

Tandra: Wow. Well, since we’re on the topic, I probably would say, although I’ve said to my oldest son that he has a little bit of I would say hyperactivity in him and that he has to tap, he taps a lot and moves and things like that, but, again, we know that we don’t know what causes ADHD, we do know that it runs in families and I think that it is running on my side of the family. I do. I remember when, and I’ll get back to responding to your question, but I remember when my son was diagnosed and it was really me educating my husband about ADHD because I was very familiar with it and I said, “You know, it runs in families,” and he looked at me, he was like, “It’s not in my family,” it was kind of like, “Hey, it’s your family,” and I was for about 30 seconds, I was like, “Hey,” kind of offended but he was right. He was right. He was right. He was right. And in many cases, when a child is diagnosed with ADHD, the parents have to look at themselves because then my husband said, “Well, he acts just like you,” and, Billy, there was no way I could deny that. No way I could deny that. So, when my son was diagnosed, I also realized that I too have ADHD. So, one of the things, I guess, going back to your original question, that distinguishes my two sons is that my younger son has been diagnosed with ADHD and so our parenting approach and how we manage him is different than how we manage our 15-year-old and that’s sometimes challenging. When you have multiple children, some families have children where multiple children have ADHD and guess what? The ADHD can look different for each child. And it’s not just like one ADD parenting book, some kids with ADHD need to move, some don’t move a lot. Some kids with ADHD can learn from screen, some not too much, so it’s so much variability and I know that for parents with multiple children who have ADHD and other types of mental health issues that it can be very challenging. And that’s where having support, other parents, a parenting group, having professional support, making sure that you are prioritizing your mental health, it’s that oxygen mask principle, did I mention that last week? I don’t know if I did.

Billy: I don’t know. Go ahead and talk about that.

Tandra: The oxygen mask principle, before the pandemic, I know things are opening up, we get on an airplane and the airline industry had it right, they’d say, if there’s a drop in cabin pressure, they would tell you, you know, basically, if there’s an emergency, you put on your oxygen mask first before you help anyone else. And, yes, that includes your two-year-old or your 93-year-old grandmother, like you have to engage in your own self-care first. And so the first thing I would say to parents listening is you need to take care of you. 

Billy: We always say you can’t pour from an empty cup. 

Tandra: Absolutely. It’s the same principle. You can’t give what you don’t have. And so if you see yourself and your kids, like I had to look at myself, then that means, hey, maybe I need to see someone and figure out what’s going on with me, fill my cup up, get my physical health and mental health together so that I can give what my children need or what my child needs to support their mental health. And that’s so very important. That’s really one of the first steps. 

Billy: I kind of want to explore the timeline of all that then. So, like before his diagnosis, what was he like in school? What was he like at home? What were his relationships with his peers, with his teachers? What were you noticing there before the diagnosis?

Tandra: Those are all great questions and I have to be very honest with you. My son was probably 18 months, Billy, and I was like, “He has ADHD.”

Billy: Oh, wow. Okay, so, how did you notice that?

Tandra: Billy, I’m a therapist. I’m a therapist. And what I noticed is that my son would wake up in the morning, you remember I told you he described his brain as going on at 100 and he said, “I try to get it down to zero but I can’t.” That was the perfect description. I would say he goes like the Energizer Bunny. He would wake up, you know how kids wake up and they’re like, “I’m still sleepy.” No, no, no, no, not my son. He would pop up and it was like all day, every day like a motor, like the Energizer Bunny just going and going. And, honestly, just trying to keep up with him, he was very active, he was very silly, like loved to laugh and to play, very engaging. So he was about 18 months and that was about the first time I said out loud that I noticed that there was something different. Around two years old, three years old, I started to notice as we started teaching him things that it just took him much longer. Because I had a neurotypical child, my oldest son was neurotypical, so I had a sense of what to expect. And so when we started to teach my younger son things, and it required so much more and it required, like he couldn’t do things without having an adult there keeping him on task and guiding him. Or when he got old enough, he was around, what, three, and they’re trying to put on their socks and things like that and shirts and you expect that to take time, but as parents, you try to give the time for them to develop their independence and he couldn’t get it done because we go in his room and he’d be doing something else. And so I started to see it and, honestly, I first talked about it with his pediatrician and he was about three years old. 

Billy: Do you think that because he had an older sibling, that helped you identify those behaviors a little bit sooner than if he had been the oldest and he had ADHD? 

Tandra: That is a really good question and I think that has some validity to it, honestly, Billy, because I had a, for lack of a better way of putting it, I had a comparison and even though you don’t compare your children, they’re individuals, but you do expect children to develop at a certain pace and certain things happen before others so I did have this other child that seemed to develop typically and then I had another child who seemed to have a different beat to him —

Billy: A Sharknado, as we like to say.

Tandra: Sharknado. I love it. It’s funny, I have so many stories. When he was probably about six months old, I remember being out with him and this speaks to some of the superpowers that we’ll get to, I’m sure, and you know how babies coo. They make —

Billy: I don’t because I don’t have babies. If Brian was here, he’d absolutely know what you were talking about. 

Tandra: Okay, so have you ever been around babies? Are you just living in your fort? I mean, you’ve never been around anyone?

Billy: When babies are around, I retreat to my fort. That’s for real. 

Tandra: Okay, so, Billy, babies make noises so they can’t talk and form words so they make noises. 

Billy: Right, right. Got you, okay.

Tandra: You need to have some —

Billy: No, that’s not my path. That’s not my path.

Tandra: No, no. Now, see, Billy, I wasn’t even getting — I was getting ready to say have some guests on the show. You thought I was going — I said guest on the show. Okay, let’s get back on track. Okay. So he’s about six months old and he’s in a car seat and I’m carrying him and he’s cooing but he’s doing so rhythmically. And I’m like is he singing? Like there’s a rhythm to his cooing and we’re in the store and a woman says, “Is your baby singing?” And I’m like no, like, “No,” but, honestly, everybody, every parent thinks their child is just like great, but I was like but he is, like it’s not just me hearing this. So I knew from a very early age that there was something unique and special about the way that this child embraces the world and embraces life. But I also knew, as a mama bear, that to the outside world that his behavior would be seen as problematic when he got into structured situations and settings where he would be expected to sit and be quiet. So, timeline wise, talked to my pediatrician when he was about three, pediatrician was wonderful, he said, “Well, could be, let’s just see how he does in school,” because, again, all children are inattentive and impulsive and hyperactive, that’s part of being a child. Where we start to ask ourselves is there more is when it starts to interfere in relationships, making friends, when it starts to interfere with their ability to learn, and it was in kindergarten when I started to see some difficulties. Not in the area of peer relations, though. So he is able to get along with others, he has friends, he’s invited places, he’s included in things. He doesn’t have those problems. And keep in mind, many of these disorders, Billy, are on a continuum. And so he doesn’t have those difficulties with making and keeping friends. He started to have problems, though, academically, where the teacher would say, “Well, he’s very bright, I wanna give him more work, I wanna challenge him, but he doesn’t complete what he’s given. And he sings in class, and I love his voice, it disrupts the other kids. And he walks around and has to move but I know he’s listening and he’s learning but he’s moving around a lot.” So, as a parent, you have to make a choice. And I can’t say to another parent what that decision is. You have to make a choice. What I knew, I’m the mother of black boys, what I knew and I knew the research and I know the trajectory of black boys and I knew that third to fifth grade is where we lose them. We lose boys, but especially black boys. And there’s a disconnect there. And I wanted to, it was important for me to give him the best chance for success and not because I wanted him to be this certain kind of man but I wanted him to feel success and I wanted him to be able to navigate his life. And so we made the decision to address his ADHD symptoms and we had a full evaluation with the psychologist and, Billy, when I tell you, so you know I’m a therapist and so I’ve done ADHD evaluations, it is so funny when you take your own child and we’re sitting in the waiting room and my son couldn’t even finish the test and we’re sitting there and, literally, my memory of this and I know it’s a bit exaggerated, that my son was like Spider-Man crawling all over the walls, under the chair, probably knocked over things, and I was just sitting there like, “That’s why we’re here. That’s why we’re here. That’s why we’re here.” And I remember that day because, for me, he was textbook and it was confirmation. And also I went to my primary care doctor, my pediatrician, gave me a referral to someone who he sent his patients to, the psychologist after my son couldn’t finish some of the tasks and they gathered all the information, look, there’s no single test for ADHD, there’s no single blood test, no single MRA, MRI, MRA, MRI or scan, you gather a bunch of information from a lot of different sources and the healthcare professional puts that information together and comes up with their hypotheses, their diagnosis, and I remember sitting in the psychologist’s office and he said, “Well, I do think your son meets the criteria for ADHD,” and I was like, “You think?” If he didn’t before, today he does. And so he was in kindergarten when we got the official diagnosis. And I’ll say this, my husband, I don’t want to paint the picture that, “Oh, hey, it was an easy-peasy.” Think about this, I’m the therapist, not my husband so there were discussions between us. There was a component of educating not just my husband but my family, because we’re still dealing with stigma. We’re still dealing with stigma. And so there was a process even within my own family of having these discussions and, no, I didn’t just run and put my kid on medication. Medication can be a component of a comprehensive treatment plan that also can involve therapy, which we’ve done, and art therapy and group therapy and parent training. How do you parent a kid with ADHD? So it can be part of a comprehensive plan.

Billy: Are you of the opinion that medication maybe is what you go to if you’ve done Plan A, B, C, and D or is it kind of case by case?

Tandra: You know, I am of the mind that we meet people where they are because I have worked with parents who are absolutely no medication and so that’s where I meet them and we talk about that, we talk about the reasons, and we come up with a plan. And I have worked with parents that have said, “Okay, I wanna try these things first, and if we need to do the medication route, then we will.” And then I’ve met parents who’ve said, “My kid needs some medication because they’re hyperactive,” and those are the ones that I probably pause on. Pills don’t teach skills. 

Billy: Oh, I like that. I’m stealing that line. 

Tandra: I’m going to have to charge you for it, Billy.

Billy: I love that line. That’s actually what I was going to ask you is what do you say to the parents who says I just want the quick fix pill? 

Tandra: Well, I’m a professional, Billy, so I don’t just, professionally, I wouldn’t say pills don’t teach skills, but I’m on a podcast so I can say pills don’t teach skills. I’m honest with parents and I say, what I usually tell parents about medication is that it doesn’t fix the problem. It can take the edge off, but you still have to learn skills because it’s still a neurological disorder. And it’s a neurological disorder where we know there are treatments that are effective and that work. There are parent training programs that are effective and that work. There are strategies that, look, if you Google ADHD, you will just get overwhelmed with all the information that’s out there. There is all kind of information, tip sheet, videos for parents to help. There’s a whole community of support for parents with children with ADHD. So I guess the answer to your question is I really try to meet people where they are because I know, as a parent, how difficult it is and how frustrating it can be when you’re dealing with a child who has ADHD or any other mental health disorder because you’re dealing with your own stuff, for lack of a better way of putting it. It’s not any different than finding out your child has a physical disorder. And so meeting parents where they are and having a conversation where you educate them, a lot of that is sorting out myths from facts and I do have to admit that, sometimes, depending on who I’m talking to, I might say something like, “Well, if your child had diabetes, you wouldn’t say, ‘Oh, the insulin is a last resort. Let me try all these other things over here.’” 

Billy: Right, right, that makes sense.

Tandra: And that’s because one of my things is the challenge and what is it? Kick stigma’s butt, like let’s just kick stigma’s butt. Let’s talk about what’s real. And why are we treating neurological disorders differently than we’re treating physical disorders? So, sometimes, just having parents to see that and say that out loud, I’m not saying that changes their mind but it at least gives them something to think about. 

Billy: So as a mama bear who is also a mental health professional, how involved would you get with his teachers and were there ever times when you would have to step back and say, “Oh, you know what, I just need to let the teacher do their job,” or were there times where you’re like, “This teacher isn’t doing their job, I need to have a conversation with them”? 

Billy: I know you’re probably thinking like, “Hey, because you’re a therapist, you probably go in that school and tell those teachers what to do.” That’s what you’re thinking, Billy —

Billy: That’s not what I’m thinking. I’m just curious, because we do have parents like that who are not mental health therapists and they will just come in and tell you how to do your job.

Tandra: Well, I’ll be honest, remember what I said about the first thing that’s important about your own mental health? I don’t need another job. I want to be a mother to these boys. And now that is not to say that I don’t know stuff, but I really rely on the teachers to be the experts in what they do and educating my child. Now, my child had a 504 Plan because when you have a child that has a mental health condition that impacts their ability to learn, the school is required to make accommodations so they had a 504 Plan which basically were just accommodations that they would make. This past school year, they did some additional testing. Now, this is where the mama bear probably came out and this was the blessing in the lining of the pandemic. We’re at home and I get to see that my child is really struggling with his executive functioning skills, which is a part of ADHD. Executive functioning skills involve our ability to organize and think and process and do. And I did not realize the degree to which he was impaired and how it impacted his ability to carry out his schoolwork. I kind of see it at home but I really got to see it up close and personal with him doing work at home because I’d be like, “Well, didn’t you read the directions? Do the steps. Well, tell me what you just read. Explain to me how you did that problem.” And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So then that’s when I had to kick into gear as a mama bear slash boss bae slash therapist and request that he be further evaluated because I saw things that might not have gotten noticed had we not been in the pandemic, not noticed by me and definitely no one at school had noticed it, to say anything about it. My son was in the fourth grade when this happened so I’m watching very closely the fifth grade, very closely the things that are happening to him. So now he has an IEP which affords him more support and services at school. And so there are times when I’ve had to — you know, I don’t walk in school and say, “I am an expert at this and I — ” No. I trust the school. I want to be his mom, I want to be a parent, and when I need to ask questions, they get the point. They get the point and they can understand that I know a little bit more than what they might typically think a parent would know and, yes, have there been times when — I remember one occasion during his academic year where I had to really be firm about who I was and what I know they needed to do and that was the only time that, so far, that I’ve had to do that. 

Billy: So then, at what point did you decide, okay, hey, if this is hereditary, then did you go in and did you do an evaluation? Did you do an assessment for ADD, ADHD? 

Tandra: So I said to my doctor, “Look, my kid has been diagnosed and I think I got the same thing.” That’s kind of how that conversation started. I think my kid got it from me, and I checked all the boxes with that. With adults, it’s a little different, but, yes, that is essentially what happened. So not only does he have a mother who’s a therapist but he has a mother who’s a therapist who also has ADHD. So imagine how overwhelmed I get when I look at checklists and structure and things that they recommend to be organized for kids with ADHD and you have a mama that has it. It just didn’t work out too well. It honestly doesn’t. I don’t know how many reward charts and, “Do this, then do this, then then do this.” I mean, it was a chore me putting it together. I mean, I would order it from Amazon and then it would sit somewhere for two months because I would forget that I had it and then I was like, “You know what, I can’t do what they’re telling me to do.” I had to find a way to have it work in my household. And one of the ways that has really helped me and I don’t get paid from Amazon, I really don’t and people might have feelings about that, but that doggone Alexa device, man —

Billy: Oh, how do you use that? 

Tandra: Do I use it? 

Billy: No, how do you use that? 

Tandra: Oh, my gosh, let me tell you how we use it. So, imagine having a child that needs constant reminders and one of the things that they’ll say with kids with ADHD is, and they say this with kids anyway, like, give a — you were a teacher give, you’ve worked in a school, say, “Hey, we have two more minutes before…” so given all of those warning times to give kids a chance to get themselves together, man, imagine doing that for a kid who just needs constant reminders. It makes you responsible for their every move. And my son will be 11 soon and I said to him, I said, “Okay, you’re gonna have to,” it’s about teaching skills, “You’re going to have to learn how to manage yourself so you can set reminders.” So, for example, we were in remote learning and he would — so there’s another part of this story I’ll get to in a second. So he would, it was actually hybrid so go to school for a few hours and then he would come home, that synchronous and asynchronous work that I don’t know who made that word up, why couldn’t it just be — I mean, I’m with the teacher, without the teacher, because I was like, “Which one is which?” but whatever. The one when he had to do on his own, I still don’t know what that is. 

Billy: That was asynchronous. 

Tandra: Thank you. Thank you. Synchronous together, okay, I get it. And he would do work and then he would need to take breaks and so he would set a timer, I would say, “How long are you gonna work before you take a break?” and he would say 30 minutes and then he’d say, “Alexa, set a timer for 30 minutes.” And then Alexa would go off at 30 minutes, he would know that’s his time to finish working, and then he would say, he did this on his own, “Alexa, set a timer for 10 minutes. Mommy, I’m gonna take a break,” and he’d go outside or he played with some toys, the timer will go off, and he’d get back to work and then he’d say, “Alexa, set a timer for 20 minutes,” for his next task. So he became responsible for himself. Because that’s a life skill. How do I function and manage and get things done with my ADHD brain? I can set a timer and I have this device that I can do it.

Billy: Alexa sales are going to go through the roof if people hear this. Oh my goodness. 

Tandra: Well, I don’t know if you have to give a disclaimer, like you could use Google or you could use Siri, I don’t know if you have to say all of them or whatever, but, yeah, was the voice activation, it worked for him. It just worked for him, and it worked for me. 

Billy: Wow, that is amazing. What a way to utilize technology in a way that teaches self-discipline. I applaud both of you for doing that. So let’s do this, we’re going to take a little break and then when we come back, we’re going to continue talking to mental health boss bae Tandra Rutledge. Thank you for listening to The Mindful Midlife Crisis.

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Billy: Welcome back to The Mindful Midlife Crisis. We are here with Tandra Rutledge who is a mental health professional. She is talking to us today about raising a child with ADHD. And before we came back from the break, I asked you this question, what would happen if he didn’t listen to Alexa or why does he even listen to Alexa and I thought you had a great response. 

Tandra: You know, when you asked me that, I was like, “Huh, why does he listen to Alexa?” and then it dawned on me. Because he wants to do well. Think about it. No kid wants to be labeled as the bad kid. And if we continue to think of ADHD as a behavior disorder and that it’s intentional and willful and the behavior, quote unquote, is “voluntary,” then we blame the child. But if we understand that it’s a neurological disorder and that the brain is involved and that there are some deficits in the child’s brain that contribute to these behaviors that we see, then we’ll be more apt to teach skills, to give grace, to show compassion to our children. And so my child is not unlike any other child with ADHD who wants to do well. My child doesn’t want to be 11, 12 years old and have an adult tell them what to do every hour of the day. He wants autonomy. He wants trust from his parents. He wants to feel competent in his ability to take care of himself, to make decisions, to do things for himself. And so it’s through his motivation for those things, just like you or I and I was telling you that I use Alexa too to remind me to call people, to do things because I want to be successful. I want to get things done. And so he listens to Alexa. Now, it’s not foolproof. There are times I hear Alexa talking to him and I’ll say, “Matthew, timer’s going off. Did you hear that?” But for the most part, I mean, that’s no different than me hitting the snooze. 

Billy: Oh, yeah, that’s a great analogy. 

Tandra: It’s no different from me hitting the snooze. We’re in this together and by focusing on your child’s strengths, you’re going to build your child’s confidence and it’s so easy when we’re overwhelmed to focus on their weaknesses. Finding the things that they do well, that they’re good at can help us understand them more. I mean, think about it, when he’s able to listen to Alexa and accomplish something without mom or dad nagging and telling him and reminding him, he feels valued, he feels confident, he feels accomplished. I’ll share this with you and just so your listeners know, because they’re probably like, “She’s talking a whole lot about her kid.” Well, this is how you kick stigma in the butt. This could be a whole different podcast. I mean, we could be talking statistics and research, not saying those things aren’t important because what I’m saying comes from research, how do we apply what we know from research to everyday lives? So, my youngest son who’s gotten good grades throughout school. He’s going to the sixth grade, this third trimester of school, we were still in the pandemic. Do you know my son got all A’s? He got all A’s, Billy, and I never thought I would see that from him. And not because he’s not capable. Don’t get me wrong, he is very bright. But the school, the structure of our educational system does not favor kids with learning differences. So, as his mother, I adjust my expectations of his academics. You asked me earlier about differences between my boys. I don’t have a lower expectation of my younger son but I know that the way my son learns is not the way that the educational system is set up and so it makes it harder for him to be his best in that environment versus my older son who thrives in that environment. So I don’t lower my expectations of my younger son but I adjust my expectations because I understand that he’s in this environment that is not conducive, even with the support he gets from special — I mean, he has amazing teachers, but just the whole principle of how you learn, it goes against the brain of a kid with ADHD. And so, as his parent, I know that. Think about, kids spend what? Six, five, six hours a day, five days a week, for 12 years in this box and imagine all the kids with learning differences, imagine the kids that don’t have a diagnosis and they’re learning. And so, as a parent, unleashing your child’s superpower, remember I told you about my son when he was six months old and he was singing? Can I tell you, Billy, that my son has a beautiful voice and he continues to sing and so he’s in voice lessons and he has a beautiful, beautiful voice and he’s an old soul and he sings — I recorded him last week because the only way I can get to hear him is to put my phone, like you stand outside your kid’s room and you hold your phone and record, that’s how I’m literally recording him. My oldest son was like, “Mommy, what are you doing?” “I’m recording your brother, shhh.” And he was singing, what’s one of the hardest songs to sing? I’m not going to have you guess. What is it? “I Will Always Love You” by Whitney Houston. 

Billy: Yeah, that’s exactly the song I —

Tandra: You were going to say that?

Billy: Yes, that’s what I was thinking. 

Tandra: Guess what? My youngest son crushed it. And he crushed it just laying in his bed watching TV listening to music. Not even trying to crush it. That was six months when he was cooing, Billy, and singing, but noticing his superpower, to give him opportunities to have success outside of a traditional education environment. But he got all A’s this third trimester. That boy was walking around here with his chest poked out. He felt so good. He did that. I didn’t, because, honestly, Billy, I couldn’t do remote learning. My ADHD, I couldn’t. I don’t know what they were teaching my son. I really don’t. But he did well.

Billy: I love that you continue to use superpowers and you’ve talked in the last episode about the importance of shifting the language that we use around mental health and so I love this idea of superpowers. What are some of the other superpowers that he’s been able to unlock since his diagnosis? 

Tandra: I think it all has to do with — so it’s his creativity. I tell him all the time, and I’m being sincere when I say this to him that I love the way his brain works. He thinks of things that no one else thinks of. The way things make sense to him, he has a lot of, honestly, common sense. Another difference. Don’t tell my oldest son I said this, please. But he has what they call a lot of common sense. It’s interesting to see a 10-year-old shut down a 15-year-old and a 15-year-old doesn’t even know what to say because the 10-year-old makes so much sense. So his creativity, he has lots of energy, the way he looks at life. I love also how he gets, so one of the components of ADHD that even a lot of mental health professionals don’t fully understand is this idea that — so if you think of an iceberg, I like using icebergs, if you think of this iceberg, on top of the iceberg of ADHD, you see inattentiveness, hyperactivity, and impulsivity. There’s some stuff underneath the iceberg that really are the things that create a lot of the challenges for parents. And one is what they call an interest-based nervous system. I’ll explain. Interest-based nervous system. So an interest-based nervous system is a nervous system in which your attention and focus is driven by your own interest, not by what the teacher said, not by what your parents say, but what’s novel or new or exciting to you. So I’ll break it down, make it real simple, and I’m guilty. How many of your listeners have a kid who has ADHD and they’ve said this to them: “Well, if you can sit on your game and play your videogames for hours, then you can certainly sit there and do your math homework. Don’t tell me you can’t focus on your math homework when you can focus on Fortnite.” Guilty, guilty, guilty. Well, the difference is, which I had to learn, is that with the videogame for kids with ADHD, they can get focused and even hyperfocused on things that interest them. They have difficulty getting focused on things just for the sake of, “It’s important for you to do, son.” Doesn’t motivate them. Whereas someone who doesn’t have ADHD can say, “Okay, okay, let me get myself together. Okay, let’s do this.” A child with ADHD can’t do that. The other thing underneath that iceberg is what we call this emotional sensitivity. Again, one of the superpowers. So I love that my son can get so hyperfocused. I do. He got hyperfocused one afternoon and I kid you not, he took some string, some staples, some tape, and some cardboard and he made himself into a transformer. Another day, he took string, cardboard, tape, and staples and he made a football uniform with shoulder pads and then he put some padding on his legs and everything and he got stumped at how he could make the helmet because it was round and the cardboard was straight but he like trying to figure out, he was like, “Maybe if I get a hat and I staple and wrap and tape the cardboard around a hat.” I mean, that’s how his brain goes. And I love it. 

Billy: What an amazing talent to have. What an amazing superpower to have. When you get hyperfocused like that, to allow yourself just to dive into the depths of creativity and turn out something that people look at it like, “How did you even think to do that?” Like that’s amazing to me —

Tandra: We say things like that all the time. We say things like that. Sometimes we look at each other and say, “Where did he get that from?” “I don’t know.” “What?” So that was that’s one thing, and then the emotional sensitivity. So kids with ADHD feel emotions, big emotions, big, joy, big, sadness, big. Big, big, big. It’s great when you need to celebrate and be excited and it’s hard, it’s challenging when it’s the opposite end of the spectrum. But it also, I think, lends itself to him being a very sensitive and caring child, that he’s in tune to others’ emotions because he feels emotions in such a big way. And so that, I think, is one of the things that I’ve noticed, and it is a superpower for him. His heart is this big. And I’ve talked to parents of kids with ADHD and they say the same thing, that, “My son is caring and loving and giving,” and those things sometimes get lost under that iceberg of what people only see and not looking underneath that iceberg and getting to know.

Billy: So what superpowers have you unlocked since your diagnosis and how has that come to help you better understand your son? 

Tandra: I think one of the things that has — I guess, one of my superpowers that I’ve learned because my son just made me have to learn it. I mean, I love my son and I want him to be successful. I know the risks of him having ADHD. I know what the research says. I know that he has an increased risk for developing other disorders, depression, anxiety. I know he has a higher risk of abusing substances. Self-esteem is an issue, his confidence, I know all of these things and I think that knowing those things have helped me to be a more intentional parent. I try to be more intentional, not just with him but with both of my children. I can’t rush him. This is silly, and I don’t mean rush like hurry up but just rush in life in general. And so he’s given me the gift of let’s just slow down and it just ain’t that serious. And he’s also given me the gift of, I remember one day in remote learning, he called me at work and he said, “Mommy, I can’t focus and I took a break and I tried to come back,” because I’ll say, “Hey, take a break, walk it off, come back.” He said, “I did that and I still can’t focus and I’m still not finished with my homework,” and he started crying, and I said, “So you took a break.” He said, “Mommy, I actually took two breaks,” and I said, “You took two breaks? You use two coping skills? You did two different things? And when you came back and still couldn’t focus? Well, I say that’s a wrap for the day —” 

Billy: That’s a great way to reframe it, to say, “You had two breaks and you’re still struggling with it? You know what, then it just must not be your day —

Tandra: That’s a wrap.

Billy: — another time.” 

Tandra: Yep. He called me at work and I said, “You know what? I’m doing the same thing. I’ve been trying to finish this project and I can’t. I’ve been working on it way too long so how about we both wrap up today, I come home, and we go get some ice cream?” That’s what we did. 

Billy: Not only are you an amazing mental health professional but you are an amazing parent.

Tandra: Thank you.

Billy: I’ll tell you, I know that when Brian listens to this episode, he’s going to be kicking himself that he’s not here because he’s a parent and I imagine that he’s listening to what you’re saying and a lot of our listeners are hearing what you’re saying and they’re just like, “Whoa, I’m putting all of those tools into my toolbox.” So you’ve done presentations, much like you’re talking to us here, and you’ve actually invited your son on stage with you during presentations. How do people respond to that? What does he enjoy about doing that? 

Tandra: Okay, so I have to correct you just ever so slightly. 

Billy: Okay. 

Tandra: So I didn’t actually invite him. He invited himself. Let me just back that up a little bit.

Billy: Okay, I see.

Tandra: He may hear this one day and will come for me. Me sharing these stories and talking, I’m sharing my life, I’m sharing his life, and so even before I started doing this work, particularly around ADHD, I knew it was very personal and it would touch home, I had a conversation with him and I explained to him, he knows what I do and I told him that I think that we have something that we can share with others. I can share as a parent, you can share as a son, and I told him, I said, “I learned a lot from you and I’d like to use some of the things that we’ve learned about ADHD and learned about each other to help other people.” He was like, “Yeah, Mom, that’s great.” So he actually has invited himself. And that’s recent. So another correction, Billy, because you’ve given us way too much credit, this all happened within the past year and a half so we’ve been in the pandemic so we’ve been virtual so he has walked on over and gotten in camera or he has sat really close to me and has corrected things that I said. And he also said, most recently, the two presentations you mentioned earlier, before I did them and I was working on them, because I let him see the presentation because if we had video, I would be able to show you a picture that he inspired, his story inspired an art therapist, friend of mine, to draw a picture that represents his ADHD and it is an amazing image of him and so he actually said to me, “Mommy, let me know the next time you’re doing a presentation, I’ll help you with it.” So it really is him wanting to be a part of it. He has a lot to say and a lot of good things to say. We’ve even talked about him writing down his experiences and his tips in a little book so who knows? You may see that. 

Billy: Oh, that’d be so cool. 

Tandra: And maybe you can invite us back and you can talk with him. 

Billy: Yeah, we were hoping that he was going to be able to join us today but he’s at practice —

Tandra: He actually just walked in the house from track practice. 

Tandra: Oh. Hey, how’s it going? I’m Billy. How you doing? How was track practice?

Matthew: Tiring, because we were running out in the heat?

Billy: What’s your event?

Matthew: I run the 100-meter dash and the 200-meter dash.

Billy: Your mom has been sharing stories with us and it sounds like you’re a pretty remarkable young man. We’re happy to have met you. So we’re doing a podcast and your mom and I have been talking about, like we said, just how a remarkable young man you are and how you manage your ADHD and how your ADHD actually allows you to unlock your superpowers. What do you think your superpowers are? 

Matthew: Well, creativity and like sometimes when I get bored, I like grab Legos and just like make something random. It gives you superpowers like hyper, like you can focus on what you want to focus on for like a very long time. I really don’t know how to explain it. 

Tandra: You’re doing just fine. You explained it. 

Billy: I heard that you sat down and made some football shoulder pads out of cardboard. 

Matthew: Yes, I did. 

Billy: What else have you been creating when you get hyperfocused like that?

Tandra: So we have a lot of Legos, building things.

Matthew: Whatever this thing is. 

Tandra: So he has one of those builder sets. People can’t see you because it’s a podcast so they can only hear but —

Billy: What do you got there? Tell us what you got. Describe it in detail. 

Matthew: It’s just something that I made, it has four wheels and my dad or my mom bought it for me and so I just got bored and made it. It’s like a little RC car that’s not remote control. 

Billy: I like that when you get bored, you decide to make something or you decide to create something. I think that is such a unique skill and a unique talent that you possess and I look forward to whatever else that you decide to create and decide to make. I hear you guys are working on a book.

Matthew: We are?

Tandra: Billy. I told him about your idea about writing a book. I told him about the picture in your room. And remember you said, “Well, you do the writing,” meaning me, and you said, “I’ll do the drawing, the pictures.” Remember?

Matthew: It might just be a chapter book. 

Tandra: It might be a chapter book? 

Matthew: Yeah, it might be a chapter book with no pictures so I’ll leave suspense. 

Tandra: So who’s going to do all that writing?

Matthew: You.

Tandra: Oh, okay —

Billy: You’ll dictate to mom, right? You’ll tell her what to write. 

Matthew: Yeah, because I don’t want my hands falling off. 

Tandra: Okay. So I don’t know if you noticed, Matthew, but Billy is doing his podcast in a fort. He has a fort at his house.

Billy: I had to create a fort so that way it doesn’t echo in my place. So I’m under a bunch of covers and I’ve got chairs all around me so I can prop up the blanket and I’ve got my flashlight right here so your mom can see me.

Matthew: That’s a very classic way to build a fort.

Billy: Thank you. Thank you. It’s good to get a 10-, 11-year-old’s seal of approval on a good homemade fort. 

Tandra: Your fort making skills, thumbs up.

Billy: Well, thank you. Well, hey, since you guys are home now, we’ll let you enjoy some family time. Tandra, thank you once again so much. Matt, thanks so much for joining us as well. Your story is so greatly appreciated. I know our listeners are going to really enjoy hearing all of the information that you shared, all the tips that you shared, all the expertise that you shared. These last two conversations have been absolutely wonderful and we can’t thank you enough. Thank you so much for being a guest on our show. For Brian in Wisconsin, for Tandra, for Matt, this is Billy, thank you for listening to The Mindful Midlife Crisis. May you feel happy, healthy, and loved. Take care, friends.

Tandra: Thank you.

Matthew: Uh huh. Yeah, I’m going to be a rock star.