Episode 116--How Being Curious Leads to More Purpose in Life

In this week’s episode, Billy and Matt talk about the maze of midlife dilemmas and how curiosity, intentional living, and being part of a community can help us find our purpose and passion. They reminisce about the music and children's literature that shaped their formative years and how these continue to impact their beliefs, perspectives, and curiosities. They also discuss the perils of curiosity with regard to cats.  

If you liked this episode, check out this episode as well:

• Episode 44--The Urgency of Awareness with Jodi Pfarr

Book mentioned: The Urgency of Awareness by Jodi Pfarr

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Transcript

Billy:  Coming up on The Mindful Midlife Crisis

Also, research shows that individuals who regularly engage their curiosity tend to experience higher levels of well-being. Curious people often report greater life satisfaction, a stronger sense of purpose and reduced stress and anxiety. It's as if curiosity acts as a psychological compass, guiding us toward a more fulfilling life.

Matt: Now, it's my understanding, though, that that is not true for cats, because they die.

Billy:  Welcome to The Mindful Midlife Crisis, a podcast for people navigating the complexities and possibilities of life's second half. I'm your host, Billy Lahr, an educator, personal trainer, meditation teacher and overthinker who talks to experts who specialize in social and emotional learning. Mindfulness, physical and emotional wellness, cultural awareness, finances, communication, relationships, dating, and parenting all in an effort to help us better reflect, learn, and grow so we can live a more purpose-filled life.

Take a deep breath, embrace the present, and journey with me through The Mindful Midlife Crisis.

Welcome to The Mindful Midlife Crisis. I'm your host, Billy Lahr. Thank you for tuning in. Wherever you are. The purpose of this show is to help you navigate the complexities and possibilities of life's second half using my NoBS GPS guide to finding more purpose and passion in life, because I am sick and tired of people telling you to follow your passions, because that is complete and utter nonsense. Purpose and passion are destinations, not departure zones, so if you need some help navigating which direction you want your life to go, schedule a free exploration call with me by visiting www.mindfulmidlifecrisis.com or click on the link in the show notes, where I provide even more goodies for you. I also share how practicing intentional and mindful living over the last 10 years has helped me navigate the trials, tribulations and successes of my own midlife crisis. Being more intentional and mindful has helped me process my ruminating thoughts, anxiety and stress in a much healthier way by reducing my emotional reactivity and impulsive behavior, which, in turn, has helped me improve my relationships and communication with others, as well as be more consistent, disciplined, patient and productive in meeting my goals. These are the same skill, strategies and resources I use in my own life, based on years of research and experimentation, to find a bit more calm amidst the chaos. And hey, trust me, there are still days when I'm a hot mess. But my hope is that by sharing my experiences, as well as the experiences of my guests, you'll see that you're not alone in your experience. So if you're looking for a little more direction and clarity in your life, visit www.mindfulmidlifecrisis.com. Schedule that free exploration call with me and let me be your GPS to finding more purpose and passion in life. And now it is time for my favorite part of the show, because once again, I'm joined by my best good pal, the always entertaining, the one, the only Matt Hazard. Matt, what have you got for us today, Even though we ain't got money. I'm so in love with you, honey, and everything will bring the chain of love. In the morning, when I rise, you bring a tear of joy to my eyes. Tell me everything is gonna be all right. Ooh what song is that?

Matt: That's called Danny's song. That is, Kenny Loggins, Loggins and Messina actually. Oh.

Billy:  Kenny Loggins.

Matt: It's a song he wrote, I believe, for his brother's son, or maybe it was for his son, but I thought it was fitting, considering the topic for today.

Billy:  Oh, I like it. I like it. That was a really beautiful song. I mean, Kenny Loggins is just 80s icon. He's got these legendary status.

Matt: That was one of his first hits. That was one of his very first hits.

Billy:  Oh huh. See, this is what I like because I'm very much stuck in my 90s genre, so it's nice to have you. I'll tell you that a lot of the times there are still songs at the Brute Squad saying on stage and I've never heard the original version of it. And I actually don't want to, because I like your guys' version. That's the version that's in my head.

Matt: Well, thanks very much.

Billy:  Yeah, so I remember there have been a couple songs like 50 Ways to Leave a Lover right, and I've heard that song a million times by you guys. But I think I heard the original a couple of times and like, yeah, I don't like this.

Matt: It's so funny that you say that. I recently was. I was listening to the radio and Finn Lizzie came on and it was Boys Are Back in Town and I'm like that's not how this song goes the original recording. I was like that's not how I sing it, dude, sorry.

Billy:  Yeah, it's just interesting what you grew up with in terms of music. I'm actually curious what you grew up with in terms of like books that you read as a child, or like, what are you reading to your children right now?

Matt: Two very different answers. I very much remember. I just saw the cover art for Gary Paulson's Hatchet the other day.

Billy:  Oh yeah, and I was like oh my God.

Matt: Yes, that took me back, but anyway, my kids seven and five right now they're like. My daughter is really super into reading of late and she started reading these. They're called Dragon Girls books and they're like more advanced for you know they're probably a fourth or fifth grade reading level, but she's kicking butt reading. So she's getting a lot of that and really enjoying those books. But when I think about what I read to them growing up we have this book called the Little Blue Truck and there's a whole series of those and it's great. Lessons about like being friendly and kind and then drafts can't dance is another one. It's great, great book about being yourself and accepting who you are and expressing yourself in your own way and not worrying about what other people think. And then we don't have to. You can cut this part out if we need to, but not to get political about it. But John Oliver's book that he did for his show called Marlon Bundo, which was basically taking Mike Pence's rabbit that he had when he was the vice president of the United States and putting him as a character in a book where he falls in love with another boy, bunny, and it's because of Mike Pence's views about LGBTQ homosexual. Yeah, exactly, and it's just basically saying that it's okay to love whoever you want, but so I thought the lesson of the book was really great anyway. So they and my daughter's been reading that one a lot lately.

Billy:  Do so those are the books of late. Very nice, very nice. Did you grow up reading like Clifford, the big red dog and the little engine that could? Oh, yeah, definitely, yeah yeah, those are classics, right up there with hatchet. Did you get into curious George when you were a kid? Did you read that?

Matt: one. You know I I don't think that we really read it in my house, but I've watched that television series now that brilliantly the theme song was actually done by Dr John, who's a one of my. He passed on one of my favorite like New Orleans artists and he did a version for the television series which my kids watched for years and they really enjoyed. I love that television series. I didn't know much about curious George other than he's a curious monkey, but there's a lot of great themes, great voice actors in the show too, so it's a lot of fun.

Billy:  Interesting, interesting. I'm, you know, not having kids. I haven't read these books, but curious George is old school, but I never read curious George and yet somehow I developed this healthy curiosity about life and the way things work and the way people think, that sort of thing, and it sounds like you also have a healthy curiosity. We talked about that a couple of weeks ago, and so that's what we're going to talk about here today is we are going to talk about why it's important to develop a sense of curiosity, and it's one of the steps in the no BS GPS guide to purpose and passion, which, by the way, I don't know that I'm in love with the purpose and passion part of that title, so I'm thinking about changing it and I am open to suggestions from our listeners and, in fact, if you send me your suggestions at Billy at mindfulmidlifecrisiscom, or you can message me on Instagram at mindful underscore midlife underscore crisis, if I choose your title, if you're a devoted listener and I choose your title, I'm going to give you lifetime access to my intro to mindfulness course, because these mindfulness strategies that I teach in that course will help you unlock the power of curiosity when it comes to finding your purpose in life. So that's what we're going to talk about today is why curiosity is so important to finding our purpose, and the thing is that curiosity is the spark that fuels our quest for meaning. It's the desire to learn, to know, to explore. In a couple of weeks, we are actually going to be doing this exercise that I used to do with students called exploring big questions, and basically we're just going to talk about, like, what are the big questions that exist in the world? Like, what is the meaning of life? But then how did we get here All that kind of stuff? So I think those are important big questions. What are some big questions that you have, matt Hazard, in terms of the unknown things that you're like, hmm, things that make you go.

Matt: Hmm, big questions for me are always the micro. It's about my kids. What are they gonna be one day? What are they gonna do with their lives? What it you know, what are their interests and what am I gonna do when I retire, like you know, and they're far off and they're these big out-there things, but they're all in. The micro to me is what most of my curiosity is about.

Billy:  I like that. I like that. And you know the thing. I think people, when they think of curiosity like, think of asking questions. But it's also about this innate desire to seek out new experiences, knowledge and possibilities. It's why I've been traveling this entire time. I wanted to seek out new opportunities, I wanted to seek out new Experiences, I wanted to have adventure that I couldn't have here locally. Research has shown that curiosity is a fundamental human trait. I mean that's why we survived for Thousands and millions of years, right as why we're still here, because through curiosity we've had to Navigate how to survive. It's deeply rooted in our biology and our psychology, and we're gonna get into that here in a little bit too. It's also about keeping an open mind. So when we're curious, we approach life with a sense of wonder and a willingness to embrace the unknown in this open mind, and this can be a powerful tool in the pursuit of our life's purpose. And I think that's why it's always been important to me in the past, in the first 100 episodes, when I would have a guess, to have people on the show who Don't necessarily look like me, because their experiences Significantly differ from being a straight white male. So I think that's where a lot of this is lost. And it's not about being woke, like please stop if you're like, oh what, you just trying to promote a woke agenda? No, I'm not. I'm trying to understand people because I'm curious, I want to understand where they're coming from, because, especially if you live in that echo chamber of hearing the same things and seeing the same people over and over, you really don't ever grow. I think that's one of my fundamental challenges and gripes with my dad is that and he just says I'm never gonna change my mind. I never gonna change my mind, I'm too old to change my mind. I'm like, yeah, but you're not, you're not too old to change your mind and it just drives me nuts.

Matt: Yeah, you never are. No one's ever too old to change their mind about anything. If you are presented with new information that counters what you believe and you just immediately disregard it. It doesn't matter what political slant, what social slant, whatever.

Billy:  If your immediate reaction is to disregard it, boy, that's just no way to live, right, especially to deny someone's experience, right, it's like no, this is my experience. So I think, just listening to that that's why I think that conversation that we have with Jodi far, episode 44, it's called the urgency of awareness I thought that that was a really important conversation for listeners to hear, because what she's doing with the 18 triangles, if they go back and listen to the episode or just get the book, I think that's also a really good one. The book should be in the show notes of episode 44 and you know I will put it in the show notes of this one too. But anyway, I just like that. She has the 18 triangles. It's like, hey, if you're living in this triangle, then you're normalized. So then there are people who are living in the upside down triangle and so their life is not normalized and I think, just using the right-handed scissors and the left-handed scissors, I think that's a perfect starting point, because you get an idea like, oh yeah, if everything was built for me because I'm right-handed, but I'm left-handed, that's probably gonna create the challenge here. So now I'm curious Tell me more what that experience is like, because if we can do that just with left-handed people, imagine what we can do with really, really diverse groups of people and really gain an understanding, and not saying that we have to agree with it, but gaining a better understanding and, in turn, developing curiosity, which I think develops more empathy.

Matt: Yeah, I think. Just I very much remember that episode, by the way. I really stuck with me because there was just so many perspectives that you know, consider because it's not part of your reality. And I should go back and listen to that episode and when you take the perspective of different people kind of into your head, it really colors your perception of the world, or it should. And I feel like that was kind of the lesson of that episode and it's a great part of curiosity is just understanding other people's perception.

Billy:  Yeah, yeah, it makes the world less black and white and it adds some color, adds some hue to it, it adds some depth to it. And that's the beauty of curiosity, because we can see other people's Experiences and that might actually drive us towards exploring our inner selves, our interests, re-evaluating our values, and as we develop that self-awareness and move towards finding our purpose, then we're able to take the actions our consistency, our discipline, our patience, our self-compassion and turn that into Passion. Curiosity encourages us to try new things, experiment and learn from our experiences. These trials and errors are often the stepping stones to discovering what truly resonates with us. Are your kids fussy eaters? I was a fussy eater, eating and add, now that I'm older and I'm like, oh, I actually do like asparagus and there are things that I just there's no way I was gonna eat them. And now I'm like, oh, I like Brussels sprouts. There are things that I like and when you, especially when you're traveling, you're like, oh, what the heck is that? But you don't want to be rude, so I'll try it. And it's like, oh, and I would never try that in the States, but because I'm overseas, and like, yeah, I'll try, this looks different sure.

Matt: So by my standards, almost everyone's a fussy eater, but my kids I think other parents would say they're not fussy eaters. I think that they are, especially my son. He's you know corn dogs, chicken nuggets, like that's like child after my own heart, right there, right, exactly like my daughter loves fish, like baked and sushi, yeah, yeah, but she won't eat like hamburger helper.

Billy:  Well, of course not, you spoiled her.

Matt: It was a weird thing the when she was young was just very young. We let her try sushi three years old and she loved it and Ever since we just continued to buy sushi for her. When we we'll go to a restaurant, a sushi restaurant, we'll get like chicken tenders for my son and and Harper has salmon nigiri like oh.

Billy:  You're just setting her up for failure. You do realize that, right? This is just like. How is any meal ever going to live up to these high-end sushi meals that she has as a child?

Matt: But that's the thing. Like for a long time she wouldn't. She didn't want sauce on her spaghetti. Oh, so she? I mean it's it, there's textures that she's weird about this, and then Neither one of them will really eat vegetables.

Billy:  So it's just you know Whatever like you said, a couple episodes, just like mindfulness. Vegetables are not sexy, so we know that they're good for us, but they're not sexy. So how do we work them in?

Matt: They say you have to try and feed a kid something 15 times before they'll really try it or anything like that. And so we keep putting stuff on their plate that you know. And now they kind of will eat peas and they'll occasionally eat broccoli. I'll tell them to pretend that broccoli is like a tree and they're big dinosaurs. Oh nice.

Billy:  It's, it's getting there. You get in there, getting there. You know, when we think about curiosity, we're also thinking about, like, how we fuel the desire to master our interests. So you've talked about wanting to be a better guitar player, and I imagine that you're continually seeking to improve and excel when it comes to being a guitar player, because you said that's something that you're looking forward to in the second half of your life, so that is meaningful to you. And you said you spend, like we know, maybe an hour every day playing, or at least a half hour every day.

Matt: Yeah, I try to spend a half hour and sometimes just like making sure that my calluses don't go away and that I can still. You know, are working on just fingering difficult chords, and it's not learning anything new, it's just exercising the muscle. And some days it's like I'm gonna play 10 new songs today. Just try them and see which ones I can take on and which ones I can't, and you know whatever. And then it's like trying to sing at the same time as playing and there's different aspects of what I've deemed to be important for practicing. But and it's not always, always about getting better every time it's just about Exercising different muscles and making sure I get that workout.

Billy:  Yeah, and I think that's all part of the curiosity Like, what can I do today? Because I think we kind of fluctuate from day to day, but if we stay consistent with it, then we we do improve over time. Another big thing about Curiosity is like this is how you and I are connected, because we have this passion for music and through curiosity, if when you go out and you explore and you meet people, you find these like-minded individuals and Mentors who can guide you on your journey. And these are the relationships that provide valuable insights and opportunities To discover your life's purpose. And we're actually gonna discuss that in much more detail in a couple weeks. So make sure you tune in for that, because it all is going to relate to this Harvard study, the longest running study on happiness, and guess what? It's all about your community. So stay tuned for that. We're gonna talk about that. Speaking of Studies in Harvard and nerd and out, let's nerd out a little bit on the biology and the psychology of curiosity. So we'll start with a biology, because science was not my best subject in school, so I figure, if we just kind of get that out of the way, but it's also pretty fascinating, especially when we talk about curiosity and the brain. So curiosity is more than just a cognitive inclination. It's deeply rooted in our biology. Neuroscientists have discovered that curiosity activates specific regions of the brain, particularly the ventral striatum. Say that three times fast. Ventral Streatum I like that word, and that is associated with reward and a motivation. And when we're curious, our brains release Dopamine, and that's like we love dopamine. That's why we go to the phone, right that we want that hit of dopamine. But a healthier dose of dopamine comes from curiosity. Dopamine is that neurotransmitter that makes us feel good and it motivates us to seek out new information or Experiences. That's a much healthier way to get the dopamine fix then through social media. By the way, we're about halfway through the December digital detox. How is that going? Shoot me a message. I'm very curious how the December digital detox is going. And from an evolutionary standpoint, curiosity can be seen as adaptive. Our ancestors were curious and they were more likely to explore their environment. I mean, it's kind of how civilizations move about throughout the world, right. They find new resources and they avoid potential dangers. It's a survival mechanism and it probably explains why curiosity is ingrained in our own genetic makeup. But curiosity isn't solely biological. It also has significant influence on our psychological well-being. Psychologists distinguish between intrinsic and intrinsic motivation. Curiosity is a prime example of intrinsic motivation, as it drives us to seek knowledge or experiences for their inherent value and interests rather than external rewards. This intrinsic motivation can lead to a deeper and more enduring sense of purpose. So do you hear why curiosity is so important when it comes to understanding what our purpose is? Some of you maybe already know your purpose and you're like why does he keep talking about purpose? It's because there are probably a lot of people, particularly in mid-age, where, whatever your major was when you graduated from college, you're like, okay, this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. And now it's 20 years later and you're like I can't see myself doing this for another second and your purpose probably has changed, because that's evolution, baby. That's what happens. So if you're having a hard time figuring out what your purpose is, let's get curious right. Curiosity can also lead to the flow state. So when you're in a state of flow, you're fully absorbed in an activity and you're experiencing this deep sense of fulfillment and purpose. People with ADHD are able to get into a flow state and stay in a flow state very long. It's just not always easy to do that for people with ADHD. When you're in a flow state, you're in it but then and you get like 8 million things done, or you see a bug and you're like, oh, what's that? And then you're completely distracted by that. Your curiosity takes you elsewhere and it's hard to be productive. But curiosity can initiate that flow state because it drives you to immerse yourself in what it is that you have now developed a passion for through consistency, discipline. Also, research shows that individuals who regularly engage their curiosity tend to experience higher levels of well-being. Curious people often report greater life satisfaction, a stronger sense of purpose and reduced stress and anxiety. It's as if curiosity acts as a psychological compass, guiding us toward a more fulfilling life.

Matt: Now, it's my understanding, though, that that is not true for cats, because they die.

Billy:  Yeah, but they have their nine lives right, so they can afford to be curious. Yes yes, very much so.

Matt: So I'm so proud of it. I really am. I am too.

Billy:  Here's the thing. I was hoping that something would break up the nerdy sciencey stuff, because I'm sure people are like go on, go on. And he's like he's just droning. And then you hit us with something good and ridiculous. I appreciate that. That's why you're here, because otherwise the show is too serious. So I really appreciate you Add the silliness to the show.

Matt: It's good, it's good. We can't both be smart.

Billy:  No, I think there are people up there who argue that neither one of you.

Matt: That's true, you can't both be smart and you, but you can both, not Definitely. Both can be dumb.

Billy:  Excellent, oh my God, oh. So here I'll try and solve smart here again, because another fascinating aspect of curiosity as if you need another reason to be curious, but I'm going to give you one is its impact on the brain structure and function, known as neuroplasticity. Neuroplasticity is the brain's ability to adapt and rewire itself in response to learning, experience and environmental changes. When we're curious and engaged in learning, our brains become more adaptable and receptive to new information, creating a cycle of continuous growth. There's that old saying that says you don't stop playing because you get old. You get old because you stop playing. And I think you also get old if you stop being curious, if you stop seeking out ways to learn. Because of that neuroplasticity, it keeps your brain fresh and that's why curious individuals often engage in lifelong learning, because it keeps their brains agile and it keeps them open to change. There's a willingness to explore new horizons and embrace novel experiences, and that can lead to a profound sense of purpose as we evolve throughout our lives. Curiosity also plays a pivotal role in emotional intelligence. Curious individuals tend to be more empathetic and skilled at perspective taking. This ability to understand and connect with others on a deeper level can contribute to a greater sense of purpose, especially in areas involving social and humanitarian concerns. Curiosity can help in conflict resolution by fostering a genuine desire to understand differing viewpoints. We are a very divided country right now. Would it be great if we just sat down and actually became curious about the other side's point of view and the other side's experiences? I really think that's what we're missing right here is this curiosity to understand each other and learn from each other and have constructive dialogues that have the potential to find common ground and purpose in addressing societal changes. I'm not saying we all have to agree, but we can find common ground to a degree.

Matt: I couldn't agree with that more, billick, because I have actually been in a position where I have accused someone else of being in a silo and only taking information that they wanted to hear, meanwhile not recognizing the silo that I sit in. At times, see a story that I disagree with and I'm like, well, oh, the news source is not reputable because it's from the other side of what I think personally, and it's like, well, I mean, there's probably bias in storytelling there always is but facts are facts and you need to recognize your own silo as well, like it's okay to point out somebody else's silo, but you need to recognize your own.

Billy:  Yeah and I think that's again when we talk about self-awareness is recognizing that. Oh hey, I have my biases too. Maybe I need to unpack my experiences and understand why I believe this. Why is this a core value? Why might it not be somebody else's core value? Those are very, very important conversations to have. So let's do this, let's try and help you guys put curiosity into practice in your daily life so you can use it as a compass to discover your purpose. So, first of all, the easiest way is just to start by asking questions about the world around you, whether it's about a topic you're interested in, a challenge you're facing especially if it's a challenge you're facing or something you encounter every day that you're like huh, what's that all about? Just questions are gateway to curiosity, right? So you can explore yourself in that way and then diversify your interests, expand your horizons by exploring topics that stretch your comfort zone. Just to stretch them a little bit, read some books, get some articles, watch some documentaries on subjects you've never considered before. This can help you stubble upon new passions and purpose. Podcasts are really easy to find. You just find a podcast here and there, because then you can multitask. If you want, you can go for a walk and you can just kind of get sort of the basics of it and then you're like wait, what did they say in that? And you can go back and let's do it again, or you can find some more research. A lot of times podcasts have things in the show notes. Like this podcast has all sorts of great information in the show notes. You should listen to this podcast Well, they probably already are it's oh wait.

Matt: Oh, it's like a shroding ears cat situation. You're already listening. Tell other people to listen.

Billy:  That's the key. That's the key. Expand other people's curiosities by sharing this episode with them. Act on your interests, your interest in this podcast. You know, don't let that be passive. Make sure you share this hobby with others because you never know, it might lead to another connection, it might lead to another step, it might lead to another opportunity for you. Embrace uncertainty is a really hard one for me, because I like to plan things out. I'm very much a planner. Embracing uncertainty is a way that curiosity can be fostered, because when you embrace uncertainty then you understand that, hey, there's a possibility to make mistakes here, that not everything is going to work out. Most likely it won't. So you're going to have to figure those things out through trial and error to see what truly resonates with you. Seek guidance. There are all sorts of people out there who can direct you. So connect with mentors, experts or communities related to your interests. Go out and find those people. They can provide insights, feedback and support as you embark on your journey to find purpose. Reflect in journal. Again, I'm not a big journal, or I've been doing it a little bit more lately because I have these thoughts in my head when I wake up, so I'm like okay, let me just kind of get some of these out, because if I get those out then maybe I might find something in there that is like oh, that surprises me a little bit. You ever had that mad hazard where, like you're thinking about something and all of a sudden this truth comes about and you're like oh, I didn't realize that that was locked in there, and now I've it's like a cheat code that you've unlocked.

Matt: I don't know if that really I don't think of myself as a deep thinker, about like being introspective and finding truths inside myself. Now I do, when I used to write songs, be like oh, that was really clever, that was really profound. But that was like 20 years ago when I used to try and write songs and like, if I look back at that, it was not profound.

Billy:  So so you're saying that the, the poetry that I wrote when I was like 1617 years old probably, was just it was just moody.

Matt: And it wasn't deep. It wasn't good, mine wasn't, maybe yours was, I don't know. Mine was not good.

Billy:  Do you ever think?

Matt: about writing songs again. Not really. I guess I should, because that's a good should out of it.

Billy:  Take the, take the should out of it. So if you take the word should out of it, I guess I know, but is it something that you miss, or is it something that you're like oh, you know, there are some things that that I enjoyed, or do you miss any part of that process?

Matt: So the thing I miss? I'm a performer primarily and an artist secondarily, so I miss performance way more than I miss anything about artistry or practice or anything like that. So that songwriting is not a passion for me, it was a means to an end and songwriting it needs to be a muscle that has worked out hard to be good. People think about like oh, this song. Just every time you hear a story about like oh, paul McCartney wrote, let it be in his sleep. That's because Paul McCartney wrote four songs a day for 25 years, right, right, and it just happened in his sleep because that was a muscle he worked out so frequently and so hard.

Billy:  Well, and it's because he nurtured his creativity and that's another piece here with curiosity. Curiosity and creativity go hand in hand. So we engage in creative activities such as writing, art or music, and these outlets can help you express and explore your curiosities in unique ways. Again, in a couple of weeks, here we'll talk about network and collaborating because, like I said, find those like minded individuals. We'll go into more detail in that episode. But cultivate resilience. I think this one's really, really important is understanding that the path to discovering your purpose may not always be smooth, and that's why we try to cultivate patience and self-compassion when I'm coaching people, because there are going to be setbacks and there are going to be failures, but our curiosity allows us to learn from them and adapt. So if we incorporate these practical steps in our daily life, we can harness the power of curiosity to not only learn and explore, but also find our purpose. Remember that curiosity it's not just a fleeting emotion, it's a lifelong mindset, it's a force that can guide you on a profound journey of self-discovery. If you need help processing your curious thoughts and turning them into action, go to www.mindfulmidlifecrisis.com and schedule a free exploration call with me by clicking on the banner at the top. Let's brainstorm some ways to bring out your inner curious George. If this episode inspired you to invest in yourself in some new way, please do me a favor and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcast. If you're looking for which episode to listen to next, go to the website and click Fan Faves under the podcast tab. I would also greatly appreciate it if you would share this episode, or any other favorite episodes you might have, with the people in your life who may find value in it. That, to me, is the biggest compliment you can give, and if you do it on social media, please don't forget to tag us at Mindful, underscore, midlife underscore crisis. And hey, as you're navigating this, just remember progress is not linear. Our growth looks more like the stock market. Some days were up, some days were down, and we may not reap the benefits for a while. But if we play the long game and are consistent, disciplined, patient and self compassionate, you'll see that your investment in yourself will pay huge dividends over time. The purpose of this show is to help you navigate the complexities and possibilities of life's second half, and I hope this free and useful information provides some insight that will guide you towards living with more purpose and passion in your life. So for Matt Hazard, that's me. This is Billy. Thank you for listening to The Mindful Midlife Crisis. 

May your feel happy, healthy and loved. 

Take care, friends. 

Matt:  Curiosity kills cats. Curiosity kills cats.