The Mindful Midlife Crisis

Episode 110--What's Your Four Temperaments Personality Type?

November 01, 2023 Billy Lahr
The Mindful Midlife Crisis
Episode 110--What's Your Four Temperaments Personality Type?
Show Notes Transcript

In this week’s episode, Billy and Matt take a deep dive into the world of personality profile tests, from the limitations of the Myers-Briggs test to the recognition of ambiverts and the revelation of the Four Temperaments personality test. They share our personal test results, and Billy walks Matt through a coaching session where they explore Matt's High Gear strengths and needs and how to maximize those in order to add more meaning to his roles as a father, husband, guitar enthusiast, and (future) world traveler.  

If you liked this episode, check out this episode as well:

  • Episode 9--Billy & Brian Discuss the Emotionally Mature Male Brain (Part 3 of The Male Brain by Louann Brizendine)
  • Episode 10--Top 20 Strategies for a Happier Life with Tom Cody
  • Episode 35--Rebalanced Thinking, Rebalanced Living with Tom Cody
  • Episode 80--Avoid Toxic Self-Help Advice with Jordan Harbinger
  • Episode 99--Skills for Navigating Adult ADHD and Autism with Genie Love

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Billy:  Coming up on the Mindful Midlife Crisis. Here's why I don't agree with the weaknesses. I was absolutely all of those things and the weaknesses in my 20s and early 30s. I was very immature, very disorganized, very insensitive. I always had this can't top this mentality. I was very much it's not my fault pointing the finger at other people, not taking responsibility, like I was a big douchebag for sure in my 20s and 30s and those were the weaknesses of my personality that held me back the most in that time and they were the parts of my personality I also despised the most. So I had to make a conscious effort to change those parts of my personality that did not serve me and made me and other people feel like shit. 

Welcome to The Mindful Midlife Crisis, a podcast for people navigating the complexities and possibilities of life's second half. I'm your host, Billy Lahr, an educator, personal trainer, meditation teacher and overthinker who talks to experts who specialize in social and emotional learning. Mindfulness, physical and emotional wellness, cultural awareness, finances, communication, relationships, dating, and parenting all in an effort to help us better reflect, learn, and grow so we can live a more purpose-filled life.

Take a deep breath, embrace the present, and journey with me through The Mindful Midlife Crisis

Welcome to the Mindful Midlife Crisis. I'm your host, Billy Lahr. Thank you for tuning in wherever you are. The purpose of this show is to help you navigate the complexities and possibilities of life's second half using my No BS GPS guide to finding more purpose and passion in your life because I am sick and tired of people telling you to follow your passions because that is complete and utter nonsense. Purpose and passion are destinations, not starting points, so if you need some direction in getting to that place in your life, join the Mindful Midlife Community at and get my free six-step roadmap to living your life with more purpose and passion. I also share how practicing intentional and mindful living over the last 10 years has helped me navigate the trials, tribulations, and successes of my own midlife crisis. Being more intentional and mindful has helped me process my ruminating thoughts, anxiety, and stress in a much healthier way by reducing my emotional reactivity and impulsive behavior, which, in turn, has helped me improve my relationships and communication with others, as well as be more consistent, disciplined, patient and productive in meeting my goals. People often say to me, billy I always laugh when I say this because it's true, people are like you seem way too high, strong to be a mindfulness coach, and that's 100% true, I am. I'm a bit high, strong. I'm not your average mindfulness coach sipping green tea and meditating on top of a mountain, cross-legged. I'm high anxiety, high intensity and high energy, and I embrace all that. But the thing is, I practice mindfulness so I can be at this level of obnoxious because if I didn't, I would be an out-of-control asshole, something that we're going to talk a little bit about today. But these are the same skills, strategies and resources I use in my personal life, based on years of research and experimentation, to find a bit more calm amidst the chaos. And, trust me, there are still days when I'm a hot mess, but my hope is that by sharing my experiences, as well as my experiences of my guests, you'll see that you are not alone in your experience. So if you're looking for a little more direction and clarity in life, visit, join our Mindful Midlife community, and let me be your GPS to finding more purpose and passion in life. It is now time for my favorite part of the show, because once again I'm joined by my best good pal, the always entertaining the one, the only Matt Hazard. Matt, what have you got for us today,

Matt: Spoonman, come together with your hands

Save me, I'm together with your plan

Save me, save me.

Billy:  Save me, save me, yeah, oh, my God. So I think you know this, but maybe you don't. Chris Cornell, to me, is the greatest singer that has ever existed on earth. Now, caveat I think Freddie Mercury is the greatest singer of all time. I do not believe Freddie Mercury is of this earth because he is out of this world. He is an incredible singer, but Chris Cornell, for my money, for sure, the greatest singer of our generation, full stop.

Matt: I knew that you believe that and I also. I think he is certainly one of, if not the best, singer of our generation, and I also think I can sing a little Chris Cornell, so I enjoyed doing that and that was specifically for you.

Billy:  That was very fun. That surprised me because I don't think the Grunge era is really your cup of tea, like I mean you like those, but I know that isn't where you go to sing.

Matt: That's not where my bread is. Those are the songs you've summoned.

Billy:  Correct, correct. Oh, I love it. I absolutely love it. You're a one of a kind personality and I'm very glad that I asked you to take this free personality profile test. You see how I weave things back in all together like that Very seamless, very corny and cheesy, but that's what we do. It's almost like morning radio. No, it's good but. But yeah, I asked you to take this free four temperaments profile test and the reason why I had you do this? Because this is what I do with my clients. And if you are a member of the Mindful Midlife Crisis community the Mindful Midlife Community you go to, you sign up for the newsletter and, boom, you have this four temperaments personality test. I'm going to talk a little bit more about personality tests here in a little bit, but I wanted to walk each of you through the first step of my coaching program so that you could get a feel for what it's like. Because, like, I have some feedback that I got recently was that my podcast voice comes off a bit preachy and luxury, nice, yeah, yeah. But I've also been told that my coaching voice is quite soothing and that my laugh is like a hyena. So all of this makes sense. I mean, here's the thing when I'm doing the podcast, I let that intense personality of mine come out a little bit and we'll talk about that, because I too have taken this four temperaments quiz. But I think that's all valuable feedback for me. So I'm going to work on sounding less luxury during this podcast. It's probably for the best. Yeah, because I'm not. You know, I'm not trying to stand at a pulpit and tell people what to do. Like I said before, I'm here to water seeds, not plant them. So the thing is, listening and responding to feedback is how we reflect, learn and grow, and, in my opinion, I don't care what age you are. You should always be seeking out ways to do just that, to be looking for ways to reflect, learn and grow, and one of the ways that I like to help people is through this four temperaments personality profile test. Now, I'm not talking about the quizzes that Matt and I used to take in those 17 magazines that asked you which Beverly Hills 90210 character you were most like, which character you think you were most like in 90210?.

Matt: Billy, I never watched that show. I'm going to say Luke Perry.

Billy:  Yeah, you got the chops for it. You got the sideburns for it. There should be no surprise that I was most like Andrea or Andrea Andrea, however you pronounce her name on the show the nerdy, high strung one. That's definitely me. No surprise. I liked taking those quizzes. I had two older sisters, so the number of 17 magazines that came into the house were numerous. And why not? That's maybe how I learned about girls was reading through 17, which is why I'm 46 and single. So, but I liked taking those quizzes because I always felt like they provided me with some sort of insight into who I was and how I related to the characters on my favorite TV shows back in the day. Thing is, personality profile tests are not very accurate. There's a great article and I will link it in the show notes that Adam Grant, who's one of my favorite thought leaders. He's an organizational psychologist. He's got a couple of different podcasts. He's actually in like my top five guests that I want to have on the show. I really enjoy Adam Grant, but because he's an organizational psychologist, he wrote this very entertaining letter to the Myers-Briggs test saying that he was breaking up with it. He let MBTI know that over time he himself has changed and if MBTI wants him back, mbti will also need to change and then lays out some basic rules of science for MBTI to follow when it comes to assessing personality types, and I thought it was really, really informative. I thought it was very well written. I spent a lot of time in Korea on the dating apps. Over in Korea. They are all about MBTI. Everybody puts in what their MBTI is, so it makes me chuckle a little bit because I don't know why they put so much stock over there into that. I always found that MBTI puts us into one of the 16 boxes and it gives license to people to say that's just how I am. I'm an ENFJ, but, like Adam Grant points out in his letter and Daniel Pink, who is also in my top five of people that I want to interview on this show he's discussed this too we're actually, all, more often than not, ambiverts, so we're a bit of extrovert and introverts. We're more ambivert than we are one or the other, but MBTI pigeon holds us into one personality type when in reality, our personalities are probably more situational than we're aware. And there's also a great Skeptical Sunday episode of the Jordan Harbinger show, who I did get to have on this podcast, episode 80. He was number one on my bucket. Well, number two because Henry Rawls is still number one on my bucket list and Dave Grohl is up there too. I'd really like to talk to Dave Grohl. If any of you people are listening, or representatives of these people, please let them know that Billy and Matt would love to chat with them sometime, except I won't invite Matt.

Matt: Sorry, I don't want to talk to Henry Rawls anyway, or you?

Billy:  But the Jordan Harbinger show does a great job of talking about the shortcoming to a personality profile test and the pitfalls of them, and so I'll be sure to link that in the episode as well. Do you know what your MBTI is, matt Hazard?

Matt: So I took it in college I don't remember specifically. I do know that it definitely started with an E, with a hearty, I think. I remember taking the test and I was like, oh my God, I'm like 92% extrovert or something like that. Like just a crazy high number of being an extrovert, which is not surprising to me. Like I definitely take energy from hosting, from having people around and very friendly. I get energy from social interaction. So I definitely identify as more of an extrovert, but I also recognize that there are times when I want to be alone and want to recharge. So I like that word ambivert. It's interesting.

Billy:  Yeah, and here's the thing I think if we don't put too much stock into these personality profile types, I think they do serve a purpose and that's why I like using this for temperament personality type quiz that I had you do and this is what I have my clients do. I mean. It has vast limitations because it asks you to choose which word out of a group of four, all of which start with the same letter for some reason, that you're most like. But what I do like about it is that I feel it informs people of what their default personality types are. But it also acknowledges that we possess a wide range of strengths, weaknesses and needs, and I like to break these into high gear, low gear behaviors. Our high gear behaviors are the behaviors we naturally default to in most situations. Our low gear behaviors are the parts of our personality that require more energy for us to summon. So, just to kind of start off here, I'm going to start with mine and then I'm going to walk Matt through this whole process and that way you guys can hear it too. To me, this four temperament assessment gives us more of a glimpse into what comes naturally and what doesn't for us. It also provides a framework for people to say, okay, I'm going to use my natural strengths to get more of what I want out of a life. I'm going to be mindful of what my weaknesses are, my areas of growth, so that I can manage those with more emotional agility. But I am also going to be open to developing one or two areas in my low gear that I feel would greatly benefit me moving forward. So it's out of 40 possible points and my personality profile looks like this I'm an extroverted, popular, saying green that's 16 points. I'm an extroverted, powerful, caloric that's 12 points. I'm an introverted, perfect, melancholy that's nine points. And an introverted, peaceful, phlegmatic that's three points. So that's all kind of based on this idea of the temperaments, right? So, as you can see, the test shows that I'm more of an extrovert 28 points out of 40, than I am an introvert, which is 12 out of 40. And I would say that's pretty accurate. You know me, matt Hazard, you know that right.

Matt: Yeah, I think that well, we can get to my results eventually here. But I also scored 28 out of 40 extroverted. Oh yeah, interesting, Based on my own answers. So, but different proportions it was, but we'll go over my numbers later. Yeah, it definitely follows. It tracks for you. I feel like you're more extroverted as well.

Billy:  That's interesting. I might have guessed that you were a little bit higher in the extroverted range, because I feel like I'm a bit more emotional in that perfect melancholy, but this would be curious. Now I'm genuinely curious where your totals are and what it all says here. So I'm not completely extroverted. Neither is Matt. I'm a mix of all four personality types and it's just easier for me to summon the behaviors of an extrovert. But there are plenty of times when I exhibit introversion, especially when it comes to perfectionism, which I regularly talk about on this podcast. I actually had my ex-girlfriend said it's so weird dating an introvert and I'm like what are you talking about? And she's like oh, you're totally introverted. And I'm like you are the only person in the history of life to ever say that I'm an introvert. So I thought that was a very interesting observation and she said well, you're always in your own head. And I'm like oh, that's, I see why you think that I'm introverted. That's not necessarily what that means.

Matt: And that's why she's your ex-girlfriend. Oh honey, what you thought that meant is not what that means. Yeah, you clearly don't understand me. You don't understand psychology. She's a very lovely lady, so we're still friends.

Billy:  But she definitely does not listen to this podcast. But anyway, finding out your results is just the tip of the iceberg. My favorite part actually comes next, which is the analysis of the results. And back in my day I used to use the four temperaments personality assessment with my students and once they completed this assessment, I would have them go through their high gear behaviors by putting a plus next to the behavior If they agreed with it and a minus if they disagreed with it. And if they were unsure I would advise them. Hey, why don't you ask someone who knows you really, really well? So we're just going to quickly run down here the strengths of a popular, sanguine, so appealing personality. I agree with that. Storyteller agree. Life of the party agree. Memory for color. I don't necessarily agree with that. Everybody holds on. I don't know what that means. I'm sort of a minimalist, but I think when it comes to people, I have a hard time letting people go. So there's that. Wide-eyed and innocent, I totally agree. Curious. That's why I have this podcast volunteers for jobs. I don't necessarily raise my hand and you're like, yeah, I'll do that. I try not to do that and I'll explain why in just a little bit, and I think I make friends easily. That has, or do you look like you're chomping at the bit to say something there?

Matt: Yeah, no, I was just going to say that was also my largest number, larger than yours Actually, my total was 20 on the popular sanguine and I also don't know what physically holds on means, but volunteers for jobs. I could not disagree more. I don't volunteer for any, no way. If there's an option which is why, also, you get into the introverted portion we're lazy like stuff, like the peaceful or phlegmatic. I scored very highly in that one Because I specifically don't, like I want to be in terms of like hey, we're all going to go to do this thing socially and it's like a work type thing or a job like no, I mean, I don't want to do that.

Billy:  No, no, can we just sit and chill with people? But yeah, the volunteering part not so much, and I think that's how I also justified like working as an educator. There is no way that I was going to volunteer for other stuff either. So, but maybe it's just kind of part of my personality, I think, another reason why I don't volunteer for jobs because one of my weaknesses that I absolutely agree with is no follow through. So sometimes I over promise and under deliver. In fact, I've done that with this podcast several times. My apologies to the listeners. I wonder if that's why our listenership fluctuates from time to time, because they're like this guy says he's going to do stuff and then he doesn't always follow through with it. Sorry about that. You know, this is kind of a part of my personality. That that I'm working on, I'm working on it and speaking of working on it, also says here that I'm immature and so I don't agree with that anymore, and I'm going to come back to that in a little bit. People who have this personality type also say that they have no fault. I disagree with that too. I'll come back to that in a little bit. Exaggerating first is lying.

Matt: Yes.

Billy:  I am like I'm not a liar, but I talk in hyperbole, so something is always or the best or never. I get in trouble with that sometimes, because then people will take me literally and it's like oh wait, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Here's actually what I meant by that. So sometimes I'll exaggerate Disorganized. It's kind of iffy. I feel like I'm fairly organized, especially when it comes to, like the podcast and stuff like that. I do think I have a lot of thoughts in my head and because of that I have a hard time getting started. And so, working with Jeannie Love, who episode 99, she's talked about, you know, I think you might have some qualities or some characteristics of ADHD, okay, so maybe that's a little bit where the disorganized comes in. Delegates work yeah, I do not delegate work. Well, I just I will just do it, I will just take care of it. It says, atop this mentality, I don't need to do that Now. When I was younger, for sure, I like the fancy myself as a lead singer, but then I do remember one time at hazard, you said well, you don't have the greatest voice and I get jealous of people who are in bands because I'm like, oh, like I have LSD lead singer disease. So it's a good thing that I have this podcast so I can actually be behind the microphone and provide some sort of value.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, that's. I definitely have that top this mentality as a singer. It's, I mean, it is a disease it's.

Billy:  Watch this watch this yeah, yeah, yeah. And then in sensitive, I don't agree with that anymore. And then names I'm okay, with names, I'm pretty good. So then, when we get to needs, what are things that I need? I need guidance and accomplishing tasks. Yes, I think that's why I liked working in a school, because there was a structure in place, they provided me with a curriculum, I had department heads and they kind of guided me through. I need to think before speaking. That's why I practice mindfulness, because the number of times that I have just said something impulsively or through reaction are innumerable. So I really have to slow down and think before I speak. I need variety and flexibility, absolutely. That's kind of why I'm traveling around right now, because I'm trying to figure out where I feel the most stabilized, realistic estimates of ability. I think I'm pretty good when it comes to that, just in the sense that I'm like hey, you're not that great dude. Like you know, you are mediocre and sometimes you are above average. And I listen, I can live with that. I don't need to be the best of everything, but what I do like are awards, affirmations and hints, donations to the show. Go to the show notes and click on make a donation to the show.

Matt: Hey, hey, give us your money.

Billy:  That'd be great.

Matt: That'd be great, so good.

Billy:  So, as you can see, I agree with pretty much all my needs. I agree with most of the strengths and I'd say I'm 50 50 with my weaknesses and yes, the irony is not lost on me that no fault is one of the weaknesses and I only agree with 50% of them. But here's the thing, here's why I don't agree with the weaknesses. I was absolutely all of those things and the weaknesses in my 20s and early 30s. I was very immature, very disorganized, very insensitive. I always had this can't top this mentality. I was very much it's not my fault pointing the finger at other people, not taking responsibility. I was. I was a big douchebag for for sure in my 20s and 30s and those were the weaknesses in my personality that held me back the most in that time, and they were the parts of my personality I also despise the most. Like you, go think about any better. That line that he says in the song not for you. If you hate something, don't you do it too. Yeah, that was me. So I had to make a conscious effort to change those parts of my personality that did not serve me and made me and other people feel like shit. Do I still exhibit those behaviors from time to time. I'm not proud of it, but yeah, unfortunately they do come out. But when that does happen, coming back to my good friend Eddie Vedder, because if you've seen somebody 52 times in nine countries, your BFFs, as far as I'm concerned, right, Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean we've never spoken to each other, but I've seen him and I'm sure he saw me once and it was magical for both of us. I'm sure it was delusional Also. A weakness that's up there, but anyway, Eddie Vedder has this great quote this is my favorite quote and he said that guy you used to be, he's still in the car. He'll always be in the car. Don't let him drive. He might be shouting out directions, but whatever you do, don't let him get behind the wheel. And for me, that's where my mindfulness practice has really come in handy. I'm able to recognize when I'm starting to exhibit those self-limiting behaviors that stunted my growth and maturity for so long, and when that happens, I'm able to say hey, dude, you're letting the old you get behind the wheel. Take a deep breath, pull yourself together, regulate your emotions and your behavior and stop acting like such an asshole. And on the flip side of that, though I've also found it useful to take a look at my low gear strengths to see which of these I could develop in order to get more out of life. So what I mean by low gear is where you scored the lowest on that four temperaments assessment and, as I mentioned, for me that's the peaceful phlegmatic. So the strengths we're not looking at needs, we're not looking at weaknesses, we're just looking at the strengths of the peaceful phlegmatic, because these are ones that require a lot of energy for us to summit. So a peaceful phlegmatic person might be all purpose. They have lots of skills, they have a low key personality, they're easy going, they're calm, cool and collected, they're patient, they're well balanced, they have administrative ability where they can delegate things, they mediate problems well, they're easy to get along with, they have many friends and they're a good listener. So when I look at the strengths of a person with a high peaceful phlegmatic score, there are a couple of these strengths that I would like to develop, and those would be specifically calm, cool and collected and administrative ability and listen. If you've been a fan of the show for at least a year or so, then you know that being calm, cool and collected is not what I do. That is not me. I'm a bit of a spaz. I tend to overanalyze, I tend to worry, I tend to catastrophize things.

Matt: No, yeah, I do I don't know if you picked up on that. No, you do.

Billy:  Yeah, I don't know if you picked up on that. I mean I've been listening, yeah, and I appreciate the fact that you've been listening. So, even though I have this mindfulness practice and it's helped me slow down those types of thoughts, every once in a while that tornado of negativity a phrase that I stole from our favorite grumpus, tom Cody, episodes 10 and 35, if you haven't checked those out but that tornado of negativity starts swirling and it's hard for me to pull myself out of that storm and I can easily get swept up in those emotions if I'm not intentional. But again, through my mindfulness practice, I set that intention to be more calm, cool and collected when I'm faced with stressful situations and, quite frankly, I find myself being less anxious when I'm in those types of situations than I have been in the past. I'm still a work in progress I think we all are and summoning a calm, cool and collected mindset when faced with challenges is mentally and emotionally exhausting for me, because it's not natural to me, it's not a default behavior for me, and I'd also like to get better at my administrative ability, especially when it comes to delegating work. I'm an intense individual. I have very high standards. In fact, just a few years ago, my personality types were a tie between popular, sanguine and powerful, caloric, and one of the weaknesses listed in that personality type is that I must be in control, and, yeah, I'm a bit of a control freak. I wholeheartedly admit that the hiring a production team as well as a virtual assistant to help me grow this podcast and something that serves and benefits more people was a huge step for me, because I am somebody who, in the past, believed if you want it done right, you better go and do it yourself, because no one can do it the way I want it to be done. And there's that top this personality shining through. Now, though, I delegate the most time consuming or difficult tasks to people who are naturally gifted or skilled in things like audio editing and web design, so I don't have to mess around trying to learn that stuff. Instead, I can focus on creating useful content that helps others reflect, learn and grow. I have no problem paying a mechanic to change the oil in my car for me so that it runs smoothly, because I would likely blow up the engine if I did it myself. I am not what you call a handyman. You just fixed a printer like a $1,200 printer, and now you sound like you're quite the handyman.

Matt: So it's interesting that can do lots thing in the peaceful phlegmatic. I scored very highly in that one and it's very true for me. I have a lot of different skills. I'm very much that jack of all trades, master of none or few. And yeah, I fixed printers. I do that for work. I know how to do limited electrical, like I could wire an outlet, I could change a circuit breaker or things of that nature, and I do a lot of low voltage cabling and I've done many oil changes and I've changed alternators and things of that nature. So I've worked with my hands for a long time, which a lot of people wouldn't think if you're a lead singer in a band Like well here's.

Billy:  I think this is part of my problem is that I'm an intellectual jack of all trades, master of none, which basically just comes off as being a no at all Sure, sure. But like I have great ideas, I feel like, you know, kind of going into this coaching realm here and I feel like I could be a consultant because I can see things and I'm like, oh, there's no system in place here, right, there's no structure in place. Let's take a look at that. And I've done that for all sorts of areas in my life when I was in education. I mean, that's really where I thrived. So that's why I like having this recipe for finding purpose and then finding passion, because that, to me, is how that structure mindset that I have really benefits me. But at the same time, like I do wish that I was a bit more handy. But I don't possess those skills. So I delegate those tasks to highly qualified professionals, and that allows me to focus on where my strengths really are. So let's do this. We're going to take a quick break because I feel like I've been talking about myself a lot, so maybe there are. This is a very extrovert of me, and we're going to turn it to the other extrovert in this group, that is, our good friend, matt Hazard, and Matt Hazard is going to share his four temperament results and we're going to identify his high gear and low gear personality traits and we're going to talk about how to make use of having that new awareness moving forward, especially when it comes to his 10 roles. Thank you for listening to the Mindful Midlife Crisis. Thank you for listening to the Mindful Midlife Crisis. If you're enjoying what you've heard so far, please do me a favor and hit the subscribe button. Also, giving the show a quick five star review with a few kind words helps others find and benefit from this podcast, just like you are. Finally, please spread the wealth of free knowledge and advice in this episode by sharing it with the people in your life who may find this information and my mission to help others live a more purpose filled life valuable. My hope is that these conversations resonate with others and inspire people to live their best lives. Thanks again, and now back to the show. Welcome back to the Mindful Midlife Crisis. Today I'm taking my co-host, leo is entertaining Matt Hazard through a high gear, low gear coaching session. This is why I love having you on the show, because I actually get to talk to somebody about this. I get to show people what the coaching process looks like, and I love you, so I just like doing this and helping you out in this way. Hopefully, you find it productive and valuable. Love you, too, buddy. Thank you, fella. Speaking of which, how's your coffee going?

Matt: You know what? Pretty incredible. So I've not had the ability to kind of sit with myself on the weekend like I normally would. My kids are bouncing around on the weekend. I'm always having to chase, but when I get the kids off to school every morning now, I have been taking just about two minutes to sit with my breath and my coffee and several deep inhales, let that rich aroma kind of circle around in my head, breathe in, breathe out, let that kind of stress kind of I can feel it getting out of my shoulders. I can feel my shoulders drop on that third breath. I feel my, I actually kind of feel my head open up, like my ears open up, and then I take that first sip of coffee and remarkably like notice what it does in your mouth when you drink something. I never really thought about it, but the hot part of the coffee, all of coffee's hot the hot part lands kind of in a little crevice in your tongue, because that's how, when you drink it and then slowly, as the warmth goes around the outside of your tongue, and then you get that bitterness and you salivate and it's like it's all of these things that I never have noticed prior to taking my time to be intentional with tasting and with relaxing myself and allowing myself to appreciate the coffee. It's a totally different experience than just having a sip of coffee to start the day and I do think it's helping. I think it helps calm me. Before I start. I'm high strung after getting the kids off to school. I've been running all morning and I usually just kind of barreled right into work and take just two minutes. I feel like it fully resets me. It's just I've really liked it. They're on work days.

Billy:  Excellent, excellent. Well, I'm glad that that little tweak to your morning and you know, like you said, two minutes allows you to do that. So my challenge to you is where can you extend it to five minutes and then throughout the day? Where can you find more five minute pauses like that, not necessarily with coffee, but just in general, and it could just be sitting with your breath. Maybe it's those first few bites of your lunch, what have you? So that's my challenge to you, in that I wanted to revisit your 10 roles that you play. If people who have been long time listeners know that, the first question we ask all of our guests is what 10 roles we play. We asked you this way back in the season one recap that recorded with Brian on the base, and the reason I want to start there is because I asked you to share which roles you're most looking forward to in the second half of life, and it's interesting to think that that was about a year and a half ago when we actually recorded that episode. So what I want to do is I want to look at your high gear and low gear traits and see how we can apply them to those roles that you're most looking forward to in the second half of life. Now, these are your roles. Can you talk about what the 10 roles you listed were?

Matt: Yeah. So my 10 roles were father, son, husband, singer, slash musician, a suburban hipster which was the one that we kind of reflected on a lot in that episode A passionate home chef, a novice guitar enthusiast, computer nerd, a POA board member still the case and an aspiring world traveler.

Billy:  All, right. Now, the three that you were most looking forward to from that list are father and husband, which I counted as one aspiring world traveler and guitar enthusiast. Excellent. So now I imagine that guitar enthusiast is the highest the priorities there. And then it goes aspiring world traveler. And then, like you, didn't even bother to separate father-husband. So you're like whatever, like they're just whatever, I'll say that just to make the family happy.

Matt: I would say the yeah, no, the order goes father and husband, first asshole and then definitely guitar enthusiast. I play guitar every day now, oh cool, and I have been for that whole year and a half, pretty much. I'm still not good. The way I described it to our mutual friend Stain Malvy is I would now say that I am a very bad guitar player, whereas prior to now I would have described myself as not a guitar player, okay, all right.

Billy:  Well, I like that. You've made that commitment, and people are like what does that have to do with anything that? You've been talking about a high gear, low gear so we're going to come back to that in just a little bit. What I want to do first, though, is take a look at your high gear, low gear personality traits to see how we can both amplify the strengths and rein in the weaknesses in order to bring more awareness to what traits will yield higher quality experiences and opportunities when it comes to these three roles. So, matt Hazard, break down your four temperament scores for us, please Highest to lowest.

Matt: Sure, my highest score was extroverted popular sanguine, which I scored 20. So literally half the points available for the quiz, which I thought was definitely fitting. I felt like I found myself in that category. When I was marking the scores I was like yep, yep, yep. My second highest actually was introverted peaceful, phlegmatic, at which I scored 11. And that also a lot of the questions that I felt myself going into that category with were around being low key, being kind of laid back, being lazy even, which is true of me. So I kind of found myself in that category quite a bit, versus being high strung, which I'm not. And then my third highest score was powerful choleric, which I scored an eight. So nearly 10 on that as well. And then far and away my lowest was the perfectionist, melancholy, introverted, at which I scored one.

Billy:  Oh, wow, wow, Interesting. So here's what I want to do. Next, then, is I want to start with your high gear strengths, so I just want to ask you a few questions here first. What do you like most about yourself? What are some things that you like about yourself?

Matt: I like that. I am generally personable, like. I feel like people like me, and I like to be around people. I like conversation. I am a ham, I like being funny, I like telling stories and I like being the center of attention. I don't know if that is necessarily a positive thing about yourself, but I do like being the center of attention. I feel good about the person and the father that I am. I feel good about my commitment to my family and my commitment to living a good life and being healthy.

Billy:  So, yeah, those are the things I feel good about. Okay, good, thank you for sharing that. So what were some of your favorite subjects or classes in school and why did you like those classes? What did you bring to those classes as far as your personality, as your skill set, your strengths?

Matt: My favorite subject far and away was band. I was in symphonic band and orchestra in high school. My second favorite classes all usually were around the arts, so acting English speech, classes like that where you would be in front of people on the spot, having to come up with things to entertain, necessarily, and I felt like I brought kind of a wittiness to classes like that where I could come up with something to make somebody laugh. I was always kind of a class clown, also very immature, so that like that segment of popular sanguine. I was like, yes, I probably still identify with that a little bit, but I did fine in science and math. I was always good at doing calculations, figuring things out, remembering facts and figures, but I didn't care about it. So I did poorly in some of those classes just because I didn't do the homework or I was bored with it and was like, yeah, I got it, I can do that equation in my head, so we're done.

Billy:  You sound like you were a pretty neat kid. I actually remember working with a young man in high school and I was like you know what? I bet this is what Matt Hazard was like in high school.

Matt: And.

Billy:  I really liked that kid because I really like you too. So you're welcome, fella. So what are some small things you do that you find to be extremely satisfying, like things like organizing the dishwasher or helping people feel welcome, remembering to buy cards or gifts, what are just like small everyday things that you do? You're like I feel good that this is kind of my thing, that I do.

Matt: Yeah, so I really love hosting. One of the things that I love is having people over to our house and making people feel welcome. I love to cook, you know that, and making great food for people. I also love to be really accommodating. We have a neighbor who has a gluten allergy that I really love to make sure that when I'm preparing a menu, when I know that that person's gonna be at our party like they have drink options because they can't really have beer, they have. You know, the food that I've prepared is all gluten-free so they don't have to worry about it and like. So I like being thoughtful about that Small things around the house. I like being a referee for my kids. My dad role is just like when the fighting gets to be too escalated, I am the mediator when they get too loud. On the weekend morning, when I'm letting Melissa sleep in, I'm like all right, let's go outside, let's run and go to a store quick and do something so that we can stay out of mom's hair. So I guess those are the kind of the roles that I like doing in terms of small things.

Billy:  The more I hear about you as a dad, the more I just think you are an amazing dad. So I just love hearing those little stories like that, the little things that you do with your kids. I want you to think about some of the various achievements that you have accomplished in your lifetime. What are some of those? And then, when you look at your high-gear strengths, which would you credit to those achievements, to accomplishing those things?

Matt: I guess I immediately think of going back to and then eventually graduating from college after not having that commitment, the follow through, when I was in my late teens and early 20s. I think of successes that we had with the band. I think of my career having two separate my very first job that I had, working at a grocery store with Pete Bourvin, as we talked about her. I worked there for five years. I worked there from when I was 14 to when I was almost 19. I worked at Coca-Cola for 10 years and I've now worked at the job that I'm at now for 10 years. So I feel like those are accomplishments in terms of commitment. I think that my strengths playing into that were, like curiosity and building on, really just a thirst for knowledge. Being a good storyteller, I think, is helpful, and being kind of the life of the party is helpful in terms of building relationships, and I think that relationships are everything in work in music. When you think about being on the stage and performing for a crowd, that is a relationship too, and I think that understanding that relationship and really working toward winning the crowd is something that I really gained a lot of skill for and that was based largely on the strength that I have in my personality.

Billy:  Watching you as a showman is one of my favorite things, not just because you're an amazing singer, but I do see that interaction that you have with the crowd, and people will come up to you and engage you in conversation and you're very genuine about your time, even though it's during a set break, you will continue to engage them during that time and I think that almost invites a playfulness between you as a performer and them as a spectator, and that's what makes going to see the brute squad in any time you're performing a lot of fun. Why don't you think about this? Think about the worst experiences you've had and we kind of touched on one a couple of weeks ago here. What strengths or abilities shine through? Maybe just going back to that losing your dad. What strengths and abilities shine through in those moments?

Matt: So I guess the strengths that I go to when I'm thinking about those types of situations are the fact that I'm very easy going, that I take direction. Well, I'm a good listener. I'm not an active listener. I think that there's a difference because I feel like in communication there are people who, like, look for meaning and they internalize things that people say. I'm very empathic with my listening, where I will feel with you and I'm a good outlet for somebody to just get feelings out. But if you're trying to impart information and you think that I'm gonna retain it when we're talking, it's probably not that hard.

Billy:  He says to the guy trying to coach him yeah, I mean, but to your credit, though, we talked about how to be more mindful while drinking coffee, and that's something that you applied. So I think, giving yourself a little bit of grace, giving yourself a little bit of credit for that and I think that leads into my final question here is what's a strength you have been avoiding or downplaying, or underestimating?

Matt: I'm gonna say memory for color. Ha, ha, ha, ha ha ha, ha.

Billy:  Well, yeah, maybe do you see much, I don't even know.

Matt: I don't even know what that means. I don't even know what that is. I don't even know what it is.

Billy:  Listen, it's not in the tech science. Ha ha, ha, ha, ha ha. Fair enough, fair enough. So here we go. So now what I want you to do is I want you to choose three high gear strengths that you feel calm, most naturally to you and have the highest return on investment.

Matt: That's interesting. So I think being the life of a party is a high gear strength of mine and I think that kind of is what plays into being the host, the host with the most, as it were. So that one I definitely identify with a lot, being friends easily. I've lived in Arkansas for five years now. There's like 116, 117 houses in my neighborhood. I think. I literally know the names of about 150 people in my neighborhood and just first name basis every time I see them on the street hey Scott, hey Chris, hey, you know, whatever. So I think that that is a big strength for me. I've very quick to make friends. And then curiosity. I'm going to say curiosity. I still have a healthy curiosity for life. I'm endlessly wondered by my children. They I'm very curious about their lives. They're annoyed every day when I pick them up from school. Like what happened at school today? Tell me everything. And then there's like I'll tell you when we get home. Then we get home and then I ask them again and they're like can we watch TV you?

Billy:  little bastards, just tell me about your day.

Matt: You want to hear, if you're making friends Like your dad.

Billy:  Are you like your dad?

Matt: Are you like your dad? Do you like? Do people like you? All right.

Billy:  So now we're going to shift gears here a little bit and we're going to move into your high gear. Weaknesses that you feel get in the way of your best self or you feel are getting in the way of you living the three roles that you're most looking forward to fully.

Matt: So I will say I do identify with the no fault thing. I think you put that as a minus on yours. That's a plus for me, like I do find it difficult to admit fault and that's something I work on in myself, but you can always get better. No, follow through for sure is one for me, and you talked about that a little bit, and I should tell you that is not something that is visible to us from the outside. I feel like you follow through really well with what you say. I am disorganized, I don't follow through and I do have difficulty admitting fault. I think those three definitely are identifiers for me and they're key weaknesses that are things that I could work on going forward and they do get in the way of those goals for myself as well.

Billy:  Well, we're going to come back to that part here at the end, so we'll table that for right now. So then my next question to you is this which of your high gear needs is not being met, or you feel maybe needs replenishing in some way?

Matt: Hmm, Well, it's not thinking before speaking, because I'm doing that. I would say variety and flexibility. It would be the one that is maybe not being met as much as I would like. Like I do feel. Often my days are similar, my work can be different day to day, but the morning routine is very much the same, the bedtime routine is very much the same, and that's good, that's healthy, for kids especially. But for somebody like me, who I get bored very easily, I do want that variety, I want the change day to day, but then I don't want to have to work to do it. So that's a struggle for me, but I would say that that's probably the one.

Billy:  Well, let me ask you this when was the last time that need was met, that need for flexibility was met, and what did that feel like?

Matt: So when I think of that variety or flexibility, variety to me is like when I take a trip whether it's even for work or something like that I spend a night someplace else than my house. Or I had to go help my mom with a project at her house and it was just like something completely out of the ordinary from what I would normally do. I was going to hang wind chimes at my mom's house and that was just this week and that's like something where it's like just a little thing to throw a different spice on the day. So that's, I guess, the last time that I think of that being met and it played to my skills, at least in terms of it's a muscle I don't get to use that much. In terms of like, okay, I am capable of using a drill, I'm capable of hanging, you know, doing handy things for my mom. I also, at the same trip, I also emptied out her garden boxes for the year and she's just elderly and it's hard for her to do that pull plants out of the dirt and, you know, lift yard bags and take them out to the street, and it's like I don't do that every day. It was just a very different day, and I found it to be a fulfilling day because you get to the end of it and you're like my hands are dirty, I've worked, I've done this, you know. So that kind of fills my bucket, but I guess that's then the next day you just go back to the same thing that you're doing, because those projects don't come up all the time.

Billy:  Well, let me ask this does it inspire you or motivate you or discipline you in some way to seek out more variety or flexibility?

Matt: Well, that goes back to the question of my second strongest category of where I'm lazy, like I have this need for variety and flexibility in life, but I also have this less strong need to maybe need to want to just sit on the couch and not do anything. So my discipline is the probably the biggest issue there. I am inspired and often motivated when those opportunities kind of throw themselves in my lap, like I'm going to help my mom. My mom asks for help, or I ask her if I can help her when she says that I'm going to go help her, whereas if a neighbor is like, hey, I need help loading firewood on the back of a truck, I'm not doing that, I'm going to go outside and do that.

Billy:  Well, here let me reframe a little bit for you. You said that you've been practicing almost every day on the guitar for the last year and a half, right? So there, in a sense, could be a little bit of flexibility, because you get to choose which songs you want to learn, what you want to play. So I think, recognizing that oh, hey, wait, when I choose the song, or if I am choosing to learn something here, or you can play the same song over and over, but maybe just instead of playing the G, you go for the G seven and something like that, right, where you try and change a little bit of the song, that may be an opportunity to add some variety in your life. And again, that's a small tweak, because when you mess around with that note, you're just like, oh, you get it wrong, you get it wrong, it sounds terrible. You get back to what sounded good, but then when you hit it and you're like, oh, now I can never play it another way again, that might be that opportunity. And then, going to this idea of world traveler, maybe the challenge to you then is just to like to plan of a trip, and maybe it's not anything, that it happens in the next year or two. But it's something where you're like, hey Melissa, hey kids, if we were to go somewhere, just kind of have like a family and maybe at and maybe you do this at dinner where would you like to go, what are some things that you would like to see? And then you can kind of research how would we get there, what would it cost to get there? Because then I think that ties into you being the host with the most, because now you're the kind of the host of the trip, you're the tour guide, in some sense you're the captain of the ship, so you've kind of creating this opportunity for your family, but you're also servicing that role that you want to fulfill in the second half of life of world traveler.

Matt: What are your thoughts on that? The first thing that comes to mind is I've been doing Duolingo for almost a year now. And I've been doing Italian because we want, we want to go to Italy and I want to do that several times through the course of you know, kind of our later, as the kids get older and then into retirement. Like there's so many different cool places to see in Italy. I feel like you know there's Rome and Sicily and great different parts of Italy and different foods and there's different and I would love to be able to get around not so much like a tourist and be able to kind of talk and I feel like you know you can count on people to know English around the world. Unfortunately for us American idiots, we have this, this unwarranted expectation that everyone could speak English, but a lot of people can, so you have that luxury. But I would love to go to Italy with at least like a pretty good rudimentary skill set in terms of being able to speak and that kind of plays, I think, subconsciously into this role that I like to have as a host, where I'm going to bring my family there and I'm going to. I'm going to be a translator for them, yeah, yeah. I didn't even really think about like that's why I wanted to do it, but that's probably a good part of it. So that's where my mind went right away when you said that.

Billy:  And you know me, I love planning a good vacation for not just myself but for anybody. So, as you were talking about that, I'm like, oh, you want to sit down and talk about like Kitty's first trip to Italy. I have an idea for you so we can talk about it. Yeah, I'm going to talk about it another time. So let's shift gears again and we're going from high gear to low gear personality traits and we're only going to focus on the strengths that are listed here again. So these are the traits that you possess, but in order to access them, it requires a lot of intentionality and effort and energy on your part. So what we're aiming to do here is bring more attention and awareness around them, so it's not so exhausting to activate them when the time comes. So what three low gear strengths do you think would benefit you the most when it comes to being a husband, dad, a world traveler and or a guitar enthusiast? I think first would be being more analytical and remind us again what's your lowest gear, the one that you scored a one in.

Matt: Yeah, so introverted, perfectionist, got it so in college. Being more analytical, I think, would be good in terms of just logistics, just being able to plan things better. I'm not good at that. Thankfully my wife is. I'm sure she would score very highly in that being detail conscious, which is, I think, similar to being analytical. Detail conscious is a really interesting term, because my wife laughs at me. She's just like why do I have to tell you that there's a pile of dishes in the sink? I don't mind, do it like I'm happy to do the work, but I will walk by it 10 times and literally just not notice it. It just doesn't register as like. It's not that I don't see it there, like I'm capable of vision, I have the eyes there, but when I walk by I'm like, yeah, yeah, I mean I got to wash dishes before dinner, not right now.

Billy:  Yeah, I empathize with that because we're both at the same high gear personality type, so I'm kind of the same way.

Matt: Yeah, she's just like well, if you have time and you're walking by it, why don't you just do it? And that is just not who I am as a human being. So, yes, detail conscious, I could do better at and then being more sensitive, I think, sensitive in terms of recognizing and being sensitive to other people's needs in terms, especially in terms of travel. I think that when I'm thinking about a vacation, I'm thinking about what I'm going to do and what I want to do and what I want the kids to do, what I want us to do as a family, and I haven't even given any thought at all to what the kids might themselves like to do as human beings that they are, which like right, they're my kids. That's not a human being. Those are my children, they do what I want to do, and so I think that I could do more work on my personality in terms of that, in terms of recognizing the things that they would want and being sensitive to that.

Billy:  And what does that look like? What could you do?

Matt: I mean I get to talk to them more in terms of they're seven and five. They're aware of if I said the word Italy to them, they know what that is, but they don't have aspirations to travel to Italy. Maybe my daughter, like she's read these fancy Nancy books. Do you know what those are?

Billy:  No, but I can guess what they are.

Matt: Yeah, it's just like vocabulary, where they put larger words and fancy. Nancy is this younger girl from the Americas who is in love with French living and French lifestyle. My daughter likes reading those books, or did? She's kind of growing out of that a little bit. So I might want to visit Rome or the Parthenon or whatever, and she might be like all I want to do is go to Paris and I'm like I've been to Paris. It's a dump. That's a life experience that I have that she doesn't, and maybe she really wants to go to Paris and I really think everybody should go to Paris at some point in their life and I should be trying to facilitate that for her. So I don't know, that's what I think about in those terms of listening to my kids and kind of like pushing them toward their interests rather than what I think they should be interested in.

Billy:  Well, let me ask you this If there is fancy Nancy and she has this preference for, for Paris, is there a way where you could find something that is geared towards children, that peaks their curiosity or their own fancy towards Italy, and kind of gauge it as like hmm, let's see how they respond to this. Are they interested in this?

Matt: Yeah, that's a good question. I have not thought about that at all. The only thing I've really thought about is, like, of the dishes that I make, spaghetti is their favorite, so they might eat the food when we go to Italy. They might.

Billy:  Yeah, that's it maybe you could look at finding some children's stories, children's movies, children's whatever things that are geared towards children that revolve around Italy. Yeah, I think that's a good idea, and I'm sure there's a somebody feed fill episode that's set in Italy and he's very cartoonish yeah. I mean he's so animated, but I don't know if the kids would resonate with him, so maybe you would need something you would want, something that's more like legit cartoon. Yeah, I'll give it some thought.

Matt: Yeah, I'll give it some thought yeah, that's a good idea yeah, yeah, just kind of some ideas.

Billy:  And again, there might be parents out there like, why is the guy who just got snipped and doesn't have children, talking to this guy about how to parent is like, I'm not telling him how to parent, I'm just trying to provide him, you know, hey, are these some things that you could do? It wouldn't even have to be about children, it could just be about your spouse or your partner or what have you, or just yourself too. Just things, hey, what are these kind of questions? We've got now? Essentially 10. I gave you a bulleted list and I asked you to fill in 10 items. Right? Three high gear strengths, three high gear weaknesses, three low gear strengths and then a high gear need, right? So you've got these 10 things. So now here's your homework for next week. I gave you a little bit of homework for this week, so I'm going to give you a little bit of homework for next week and we'll check in. I gave you a little bit of homework with the coffee. You did an incredible job with that. So this strategy is the one I'm borrowing from ADHD coach a teeny love. I mentioned her before she joined me on episode 99. She and I also collaborated on a course called living mindfully with ADHD that you can actually access by going to and clicking on courses. There's four sessions there. They're about an hour a piece. You can go to the show notes too. There's more information in there. But here's what it is. It's kind of like a stoplight strategy. Like I said, this is your homework for next week. Mad hazard. We've identified these 10 traits that we want to track for the next week or two. We don't have to do this to the end of time maybe just for the next week or two, I'll send you of the form so you can kind of keep track of it and those you who are listening. If you're interested in doing this, to remember to go to the website and if you are a member of the Mindful Midlife Community, you sign up for the newsletter. The four temperaments assessment just gets sent to you in an email, so look for it there. But I'm going to ask you to list those 10 traits that we discussed here today, and then I want you to first of all identify moments when you notice that these traits are present, not just the bad either, not just the weaknesses, but the strengths. Right now, keep in mind we have six strengths, we have three weaknesses and we just have one need for the strengths. How did you use these for good? How did you use these in order to move towards being a better father husband? How did you use these to help become a world traveler? How did you use these when it came to guitar? And if for the weaknesses, don't focus on how you let them got it, how did you rein them in? So it's that level of awareness right. I started going down this path, but then the awareness kicked in and I was like, oh hey, and then how did you rein it in if you did? And if you didn't, how did you let it get the best of you? So think of it that way. So I'll send you that too, so you can reflect on that, and then next week we'll check back in to see what impact this new awareness has had on you. My other challenge to you is this if you sit with your wife and maybe even your kids, and you know you might have to make the language more age appropriate for them and say to them you know what I like about you, this, this and this. You know you have those conversations. You can tell your kids hey, this is what I like about you, I like this, this and this. What do you like about daddy? Hmm, and then that way you can kind of get a perspective of what it is they appreciate about you do.

Matt: I word it the same way for my wife. What you know, what?

Billy:  Melissa, I would love for you to record that so that I can hear that response. I would love, absolutely love, to hear how she responds to that. Yes, please do. Yeah, then you can also ask them what do you wish daddy didn't do? And that I would love for sure to get that response. So, again, like I said, you can do this with your partner. You can do this with Melissa as well. My suggestion, though, is, if you're going to do it with your partner, that you start with the weaknesses, because otherwise that can turn into something that you don't want. So start with it weaknesses and end with the strengths. And I'll also say this I'm apprehensive about having people share their results of the four temperaments with their spouse, and here's why you want to make sure that these personality traits aren't weaponized against you. Like I said at the beginning, this is not science. It's just an opportunity to bring more awareness to what your default behaviors may look like, so they can help you reflect, learn and grow. What I don't want to have happened is them to be like well see, just like that test said, you never follow through.

Matt: I don't want it to turn into that, so it's just, you don't have to worry, you have to worry about that.

Billy:  She has identified all of those personality markers long since so then here's the nice thing is, now that you have this information, to be like oh, maybe she's not so far off, maybe this isn't her nagging. This is actually just things that I actually, now that I'm aware of, I know I did work. She was right. Hey, if you're curious about your high-gear, low-gear personality traits, again go to Join the Mindful Midlife community. Not only will you receive the four temperament personality tests, but you'll get free access to my intro to mindfulness starter course. If you take the four temperaments test and you want to chat about your results, like we did with Matt Hazard today, hey, that's a free service I'm offering. That's a free call that you can schedule if you want. So go to the show notes and schedule an exploration call with me, or you can shoot me an email at Billy at MindfulMidlifeCrisiscom. If this episode inspired you to invest in yourself in some new way, please do me a favor and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcast. If you're looking for which episode to listen to next, go to the website and click on fan faves under the podcast tab. I would also greatly appreciate it if you would share this episode, or any other favorite episode, with the people in your life who may find value in it. That, to me, is the biggest compliment you can give, and if you do do that on social media, don't forget to follow and tag us. Finally, remember this progress is not linear. Our growth looks more like the stock market some days we're up, some days we're down, and we may not reap the benefits for a while. But if we play the long game and our consistent, disciplined, patient and self-compassionate, you'll see that your investment in yourself will pay huge dividends over time. Remember the purpose of this show is to help you navigate the complexities and possibilities of life's second half, and I hope this free and useful information provides some insight that will guide you towards living with more purpose and passion in your life. 

So for Matt Hazard…

Matt:  …that's me. 

Billy:  This is Billy. Thank you for listening to the mindful midlife crisis. May you feel happy, healthy and loved. 

Take care friends. 

Matt:  Bye, bye.